need 3rd engine???
07-14-02, 02:37 PM
#1
Miss my 7
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need 3rd engine???
I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible. I recently had a fuel injector replaced on my '94 automatic 3rd gen, having had the pulsation damper done 3 months ago as well, to fix a fuel leak that no one could find. In the course of the dealership fixing the fuel leak, they told me I needed a TPS which would control the stalling/irregular idle problems I had. I ok'd the TPS, only to be told 1 week later (this past Friday), while they still have the car, that my engine looses compression when it's hot and when the a/c is on and that the only solution is a new engine. .
Yikes! I've been through this before. 40,000 miles and less than 5 years ago I had an engine replaced for the same problem. This was in '97 and I had 48,000 miles on the car and at that time I had an extended warranty which covered it.
I have been in touch with Mazda corporate and am awaiting an answer from them to see if they can do anything. Does anyone here have any suggestions for me. Again, this (my 2nd) engine only has 40,000 miles on it ... total milage on car is 88,000.
I love this car, as only the people on the list can understand... bought it new in '94 and I just don't have 3-5K to dump into it at this time. Anyone know any warranty issues that may help?? Thanks in advance for any help or info ...
Heartbroken in Vegas...Bev A
Yikes! I've been through this before. 40,000 miles and less than 5 years ago I had an engine replaced for the same problem. This was in '97 and I had 48,000 miles on the car and at that time I had an extended warranty which covered it.
I have been in touch with Mazda corporate and am awaiting an answer from them to see if they can do anything. Does anyone here have any suggestions for me. Again, this (my 2nd) engine only has 40,000 miles on it ... total milage on car is 88,000.
I love this car, as only the people on the list can understand... bought it new in '94 and I just don't have 3-5K to dump into it at this time. Anyone know any warranty issues that may help?? Thanks in advance for any help or info ...
Heartbroken in Vegas...Bev A
07-14-02, 05:39 PM
#2
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Take it somewhere else than those bastards at dealers!
They don't know how to fix anything, they can barely change oil and manage not to strip something.
They may have just knocked off the boost sensor loose and cause the car to barely idle. There is a line under the boost sensor that gets disconnected easily, especially when those monkeys fool around.
Bottom line, take it to a rotary shop. How have you managed to kept the car going without a real rotary shop? Amazing
They don't know how to fix anything, they can barely change oil and manage not to strip something.
They may have just knocked off the boost sensor loose and cause the car to barely idle. There is a line under the boost sensor that gets disconnected easily, especially when those monkeys fool around.
Bottom line, take it to a rotary shop. How have you managed to kept the car going without a real rotary shop? Amazing
07-14-02, 06:10 PM
#3
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Unfortunately there is no rotary shop here, and now only 1 Mazda dealership. The mechanic seems to know his stuff... but what do I know... I'm no technical whiz!! This mechanic did the install on my 2nd engine 5 years ago.
We'll see what Mazda corporate has to say this week.
Thanks for your help
We'll see what Mazda corporate has to say this week.
Thanks for your help
07-14-02, 09:10 PM
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I just thought of something... after I replied to your PM.
If your car stalls in hot weather and the idle fluctuates or you have 2 idle (higher RPM in Park or Neutral, and lower when in Drive), your lower intake manifold gasket is leaking intake air. Maybe your engine has the newer metal gasket if it's truely replaced with a remanufactured engine instead of a rebuilt. The original paper gasket is prone to leakage. But it's another thing to check out.
As far as I know, there is no such thing as losing compression when the engine is hot. Compression is checked when the engine is off. Maybe he meant vacuum as in a vacuum leak causing bad idle. That would be related to the Lower Intake Manifold issue that I mentioned earlier.
Maybe you can update us on what's wrong with the car now so we can offer some more advice. I don't mean what needs to be fixed but what are the symptons of the car.
Bottom line, if you can still drive it, I would try a second opinion before dishing out more $$$ on another motor.
And, most people on the forum can tell you about the fuel pulation damper before you can spell fuel leak. It's very very popular issue with these cars. If he took the longest time to figure it out, he has little or no rotary experience.
If your car stalls in hot weather and the idle fluctuates or you have 2 idle (higher RPM in Park or Neutral, and lower when in Drive), your lower intake manifold gasket is leaking intake air. Maybe your engine has the newer metal gasket if it's truely replaced with a remanufactured engine instead of a rebuilt. The original paper gasket is prone to leakage. But it's another thing to check out.
As far as I know, there is no such thing as losing compression when the engine is hot. Compression is checked when the engine is off. Maybe he meant vacuum as in a vacuum leak causing bad idle. That would be related to the Lower Intake Manifold issue that I mentioned earlier.
Maybe you can update us on what's wrong with the car now so we can offer some more advice. I don't mean what needs to be fixed but what are the symptons of the car.
Bottom line, if you can still drive it, I would try a second opinion before dishing out more $$$ on another motor.
And, most people on the forum can tell you about the fuel pulation damper before you can spell fuel leak. It's very very popular issue with these cars. If he took the longest time to figure it out, he has little or no rotary experience.
Last edited by djantlive; 07-14-02 at 09:22 PM.
07-15-02, 07:11 PM
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As you seem to be........
in a uncomfortable situation... document everything... hav them give you in writing exactly what is wrong with your engine,,, sympton as well as how they came to this decision and how they were able to verify same.... then ask forum.... experience is to be called on in times of trials.... Carter
07-15-02, 09:24 PM
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Thanks for your input.
I brought my car in for the fuel leak repair, aware that I had a stalling problem, but I thought I would take care of the leak first, as it was dangerous. The other(stalling) problem only seemed to occur with the a/c on when slowing for a light, etc. The rpms would drop significantly and then the car would stall completely. The only solution was to shut the a/c before coming to a stop, and then turn it on when I accelerated.The idle has been irregular at other times, as well, regardless if the a/c was on or not, but it didn't stall without the a/c.
So I picked up my baby today, and it is running worse than ever. The whole car seems to be shaking while driving, and of course, the stalling problem is still there. The service manager told me replacing the TPS would alleviate these problems, which it didn't.
The diagnosis from the dealershoip is
"Road tested veh after repairs and found veh stalling when coming to a stop with the a/s on. Checked veh out and found engine compression below specs. Check engine vacumm & found vacumm is too low to keep engine running. Found engine is weak. Customer declined further repairs at this time. Recommended engine repairs"
That is Exactly what the dealership wrote on my bill. This, after replacing a fuel injector, THR sensor. and the 3 way valve (the TPS??)
Well, that's the most recent info on my on-going nightmare. As I am the original owner, I'm in the process of documenting EVERY repair that has been done to the car, including the replaced engine. In going over all of these, I see that this is my 3rd TPS and I have already put in 2 EGR valves, which they said I need right now, as well.
Thanks again for everyone's help
Bev
I brought my car in for the fuel leak repair, aware that I had a stalling problem, but I thought I would take care of the leak first, as it was dangerous. The other(stalling) problem only seemed to occur with the a/c on when slowing for a light, etc. The rpms would drop significantly and then the car would stall completely. The only solution was to shut the a/c before coming to a stop, and then turn it on when I accelerated.The idle has been irregular at other times, as well, regardless if the a/c was on or not, but it didn't stall without the a/c.
So I picked up my baby today, and it is running worse than ever. The whole car seems to be shaking while driving, and of course, the stalling problem is still there. The service manager told me replacing the TPS would alleviate these problems, which it didn't.
The diagnosis from the dealershoip is
"Road tested veh after repairs and found veh stalling when coming to a stop with the a/s on. Checked veh out and found engine compression below specs. Check engine vacumm & found vacumm is too low to keep engine running. Found engine is weak. Customer declined further repairs at this time. Recommended engine repairs"
That is Exactly what the dealership wrote on my bill. This, after replacing a fuel injector, THR sensor. and the 3 way valve (the TPS??)
Well, that's the most recent info on my on-going nightmare. As I am the original owner, I'm in the process of documenting EVERY repair that has been done to the car, including the replaced engine. In going over all of these, I see that this is my 3rd TPS and I have already put in 2 EGR valves, which they said I need right now, as well.
Thanks again for everyone's help
Bev
07-15-02, 11:30 PM
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U have a vacuum leak which causes poor idle, stall, and low compression. Where is the leak? It could be a variety of places such as a broken vacuum hose, a blown LIM gasket (very likely if your remanufactured engine didn't come with the new metal gasket), bad solenoid.
I recommend first reading your ECU for error code. There is a write up on how to do this below. It's very simple.
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/engine_codes.html
If you get any code, start with fixing this first to see if that helps.
I recommend first reading your ECU for error code. There is a write up on how to do this below. It's very simple.
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/engine_codes.html
If you get any code, start with fixing this first to see if that helps.
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03-30-09, 12:09 PM
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follow- up
Just as a follow-up, I had contacted Mazda North America about my problem and one of their top executives (who shall go unnamed here) told me that, with these engines, it is unfortunately often "the luck of the draw". I replied to him that even though I live in Las Vegas, I didn't realize I would be gambling when I bought this car new in '94 for $40,00!!!.
He was unwilling to do anything further, so I wrote to Mazda Japan. After many correspondences, they gave me a new engine, and I had to pay the labor costs. Sounded like a great deal until the local dealership got their unskilled hands on the car, again. It took them a couple of months to get the engine in, with the car sitting in pieces in the shop. I have photos if anyone is interested in seeing them. You would be appalled by how this shop worked on a performance vehicle - leaving parts sitting in a heap like junk.
Long story short, they finally put it back together again and sent me on my way.
My advice - if you have a problem like this, pursue it all the way to the top. It's worth the effort.
He was unwilling to do anything further, so I wrote to Mazda Japan. After many correspondences, they gave me a new engine, and I had to pay the labor costs. Sounded like a great deal until the local dealership got their unskilled hands on the car, again. It took them a couple of months to get the engine in, with the car sitting in pieces in the shop. I have photos if anyone is interested in seeing them. You would be appalled by how this shop worked on a performance vehicle - leaving parts sitting in a heap like junk.
Long story short, they finally put it back together again and sent me on my way.
My advice - if you have a problem like this, pursue it all the way to the top. It's worth the effort.
Last edited by Bev_lv; 03-30-09 at 12:10 PM. Reason: easier to read
03-30-09, 12:15 PM
#9
"I replied to him that even though I live in Las Vegas, I didn't realize I would be gambling when I bought this car new in '94 for $40,00!!!."
Classic!!!
And I love the 7 years later Follow up too..
DID it take the dealer that long to do the JOB?? J.K.
Classic!!!
And I love the 7 years later Follow up too..
DID it take the dealer that long to do the JOB?? J.K.
Last edited by Japan2LA; 03-30-09 at 12:18 PM.
03-30-09, 02:58 PM
#12
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yet more
Well there's more... I ended up selling my baby some months after and the a**hole that bought it didn't realize he was buying a high performance car. He just got excited (I could be a lot cruder in my description), when he saw the car but was clueless.
Long story short, he burned the engine and sued me for misrepresentation. I hope he's (Harvey) reading this. He lied through his teeth when we went to mediation, and typical Vegas-style, his attorney was buddies with the the mediator, and you can imagine how that turned out!
That car was cherry...I bought it new and kept it in immaculate condition. Further, I knew more about that car than many mechanics, as a result of $30,000+ repair work... much of it under warranty.
I do miss that car terribly and someday hope to have another one. I've seen the RX-8 but it just doesn't do it for me. The 3rd gen had it all.. beautiful aesthetics and amazing performance. Oh well, don't mean to be preaching to the choir here! ;-)
I also have a couple of original items to put up for sale but I don't have the requisite # of posts yet...stay tuned ;-)
Long story short, he burned the engine and sued me for misrepresentation. I hope he's (Harvey) reading this. He lied through his teeth when we went to mediation, and typical Vegas-style, his attorney was buddies with the the mediator, and you can imagine how that turned out!
That car was cherry...I bought it new and kept it in immaculate condition. Further, I knew more about that car than many mechanics, as a result of $30,000+ repair work... much of it under warranty.
I do miss that car terribly and someday hope to have another one. I've seen the RX-8 but it just doesn't do it for me. The 3rd gen had it all.. beautiful aesthetics and amazing performance. Oh well, don't mean to be preaching to the choir here! ;-)
I also have a couple of original items to put up for sale but I don't have the requisite # of posts yet...stay tuned ;-)
03-30-09, 08:53 PM
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what do you have? I probably need it, the last owner of this car really tore it up and I am trying to restore it as best as my wallet allows me at the moment.
I am not gonna say damn kids because I might be considered one but my disability money isn't enough for me to get this thing done anytime soon.
I am not gonna say damn kids because I might be considered one but my disability money isn't enough for me to get this thing done anytime soon.
03-30-09, 10:57 PM
#15
I know you sold the car but the lesson learned here was not to go to the top but to STOP using dealerships and find a reputable small specialty shop to do the work. This forum is really handy in that department.
After the 1st engine I would have thought you would have lost all confidence in the dealership.
Second lesson learned? Never buy an automatic sports car. Its an oxymoron.
After the 1st engine I would have thought you would have lost all confidence in the dealership.
Second lesson learned? Never buy an automatic sports car. Its an oxymoron.
03-31-09, 12:19 AM
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Point(s) taken, however a lot of the work done was under the manufacturer's warranty and I was of the understanding that I had no choice but to take it to the dealership. That, in addition to the fact that back then there weren't any good rotary shops here.
I'm kind of out of the loop now, so perhaps there are some mechanics here in Vegas who know how to work on the car. Anyway, the car's sold so no need to find a mechanic at the moment.
I'm kind of out of the loop now, so perhaps there are some mechanics here in Vegas who know how to work on the car. Anyway, the car's sold so no need to find a mechanic at the moment.
03-31-09, 12:34 AM
#17
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Sent you a PM
sorry that message was meant to go to oyy0 ...this message board has me thrown a bit as to it's workings...ah well, can't be brain surgery!
sorry that message was meant to go to oyy0 ...this message board has me thrown a bit as to it's workings...ah well, can't be brain surgery!
Last edited by Bev_lv; 03-31-09 at 12:38 AM. Reason: needed to clarify
07-06-09, 04:32 PM
#19
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Just moved to Philly (from Vegas) so I haven't been on this forum for a while. I have 2 original covers - the blue one and the gray cover. They are both in the original packaging, as I purchased them new when I owned the car.
05-13-21, 01:00 PM
#23
I am glad I did not have it tuned at Elite. I am sure that in the tuning process, they would have suggested that they can't tune it because "something else" needs to be fixed resulting in more work/money for them.
My car runs amazing now after having the Banzai team work on it.
My car runs amazing now after having the Banzai team work on it.
04-13-22, 06:21 PM
#25
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I hate to add to the choir here but I ordered $6,000 worth of stuff from Sal/Sam (whatever his name is) last January. That's more than 4 months ago!!! SOME of the stuff showed up (high quality parts I admit!) but much of it did NOT show up and he's been stringing me on for month after month. Eleven days ago he told me he was shipping it out (Saturday, April 2nd) on the following Monday (April 4th). He NEVER answers his phone, he NEVER returns emails, he NEVER leaves messages and rarely calls back when his secretary says he will.
This makes me sad because I put a throttle body on pre-order (supposed release is in two days on the 15th of April, 2022) along with some other stuff and now it looks like I'm gonna have to dispute the chare with my credit card company because, as you may have guessed, I never got a tracking number and never got the remaining parts Sal/Sam promised. And, of course, he has totally ghosted me. Here is a copy of the last email I sent him a few days ago along with his response... now, when you read it you're gonna say, "Why didn't he just answer the questions in the email? Why did he justify the phone-tag crap when he could have just answered the questions right then and there?" The answer is: That is a good question! Here it is:Hey Sal4
Yahoo/Sent
This makes me sad because I put a throttle body on pre-order (supposed release is in two days on the 15th of April, 2022) along with some other stuff and now it looks like I'm gonna have to dispute the chare with my credit card company because, as you may have guessed, I never got a tracking number and never got the remaining parts Sal/Sam promised. And, of course, he has totally ghosted me. Here is a copy of the last email I sent him a few days ago along with his response... now, when you read it you're gonna say, "Why didn't he just answer the questions in the email? Why did he justify the phone-tag crap when he could have just answered the questions right then and there?" The answer is: That is a good question! Here it is:Hey Sal4
Yahoo/Sent
David A. Beecroft <stripling@yahoo.com>
To:Eliterotaryshop Info
Mon, Apr 11 at 6:13 PM
David here in Las Vegas,
I was told, again, I'd get a call from you ... and, I didn't.
I'd just like to tell you that you can just email or text me. It takes way, way less time and I don't have to get on a schedule to do it. Like you I'm crazy busy.
All I need to know is this:
1) Did you send the parts 7 days ago like I was told you were gonna? If not, then when are you gonna send 'em?
2) You're website says the throttle bodies were gonna come in on the 15th? In 4 days? Are they on schedule for delivery? 'Cause I pre-ordered one of those sexy babies
3) I'm gonna order an oil pan support and some other little things as well so if you wanna send everything at once that's cool but I need to know when you're sending stuff out or find out if you actually sent them out last Monday like I was told you were gonna.
4) You don't sell a rebuild kit do ya? I was gonna order one from Atkins with side seals and all the gaskets but I don't need apex's ... I didn't see a kit and would like to know your take on the Atkins kits or if you'd recommend others?
Here, again, is a copy of the emailed list of stuff I'm expecting, as sent to you over a month ago:
*Fuel Injector Rails (with dummy plugs for LIM) - red
*Oil Filler Neck - wrinkle red
*Oil Drain Fitting 2.0 or 3.0, whatever ya got
*LEFT (driver's) REAR brake caliper WITH brake pad holder - instead of the right (passenger's) rear one you sent me by mistake
*Ignition Coils - four of them - WITH "holder"/bracket
Thanks... hoping to have this baby up and running by the end of the month - awesome weather - I'm excited!
David
702.582.5505
Info Elite Rotary <info@eliterotaryshop.com>
To:David A. Beecroft
Mon, Apr 11 at 10:11 PM
David
I callEd you yesterday at 5:46pm and kept getting your VM. So I figured your phone was off or you were on another call. I will try today around noon and see if I get thru.
Thank you
Sal
Show original message
David A. Beecroft <stripling@yahoo.com>
To:Info Elite Rotary
Mon, Apr 11 at 10:41 PM
I guess if you wanna then that's fine OR you can just reply to me in the email and go through the questions one by one and that way it's easy and we don't have to keep phone-tagging month after month... you must really hate emails, hu?
Show original message
David A. Beecroft <stripling@yahoo.com>
To:Info Elite Rotary
Tue, Apr 12 at 11:55 PM
Again I did not get your call and again I got no messages on voicemail.
How about we stop the telephone tag and just keep it to email. This is far, far too difficult for me. Please just reply with answers the questions I asked in the former email.
Here - I'll make it easy for ya and copy it here for you so you can reply even more easily.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Did you send the parts 7 days ago like I was told you were gonna? If not, then when are you gonna send 'em?
2) You're website says the throttle bodies were gonna come in on the 15th? In 4 days? Are they on schedule for delivery? 'Cause I pre-ordered one of those sexy babies
3) I'm gonna order an oil pan support and some other little things as well so if you wanna send everything at once that's cool but I need to know when you're sending stuff out or find out if you actually sent them out last Monday like I was told you were gonna.
4) You don't sell a rebuild kit do ya? I was gonna order one from Atkins with side seals and all the gaskets but I don't need apex's ... I didn't see a kit and would like to know your take on the Atkins kits or if you'd recommend others?
Here, again, is a copy of the emailed list of stuff I'm expecting, as sent to you over a month ago:
*Fuel Injector Rails (with dummy plugs for LIM) - red
*Oil Filler Neck - wrinkle red
*Oil Drain Fitting 2.0 or 3.0, whatever ya got
*LEFT (driver's) REAR brake caliper WITH brake pad holder - instead of the right (passenger's) rear one you sent me by mistake
*Ignition Coils - four of them - WITH "holder"/bracket
Thanks... hoping to have this baby up and running by the end of the month - awesome weather - I'm excited!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, I can't keep playing these games, bro. No more phone calls - you never answer your phone and rarely call back when you say you will and even if you do and I miss your call you never leave any messages. My questions are simple. See them above and please answer them. My credit card company is telling me a still have time to dispute the charges. I don't wanna do that. I just want to get the stuff I've paid for and keep buying stuff from you in the future. It's that easy. No more phone-tag, no more broken promises, no more of me leaving voicemails, no more talking to your secretary and have her say "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know!" No more. Just ... answer the above questions.
Today is Tuesday. I'll give you until Thursday. I hate having to do this as I was hoping for a good relationship with your shop but this is too much. It's been over four months and all I get is broken promises. Please don't make me dispute the charges - let's just get me my stuff and keep things on the up and up.
Thanks
David