areXseven

iTrader: (1)

In another unrelated Thread in this section, questions were posed wheather or not our Engines (FD 13B-REW) had an identification number on the block. Some Members were not aware that these Engine Numbers existed. Others claimed, myself included, that not only these numbers existed,.. but that the engine numbers actually corresponded with the VIN. In other words, Engine and Vehicle Numbers could be matched to support an original equipped engine specific to any subject vehicle.

Attached are photos I took out of my 1993 Owner's Manual. As you can see it identifies the area where the Engine Number is located on the block.

Well, to cut to the chase, this morning I called Mazda Motor of America, Inc. in Irvine, CA (1.800.222.5500) and spoke to a representative. According to the representative, who had to put me on hold to ask another representative,...the Engine Number on our Fds, does not correspond to the VIN.

su_maverick

hey areX, thank you very much for doing the leg work on this. Its a good thing to know for those people who were interested in possibly keeping the car as a collector

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

Hey, no biggy. I think it answers a lot of questions. Specially the ones I had!

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I don't understand the fascination with a numbered block. As a rebuilder, I've had people ask me about this, and I dont get it. We're not working with 67 mustangs here, the car will never be a true collector item...it's a 10-20 yr old (FC or FD) japanese sportscar on american soil, not a 35-50 year old amiercan muscle car. Furthermore, rotary blocks are not really a block, being that they come all apart into pieces. IN a block there are 8 major components, and if you wanted to you could build a block from parts of 8 different engines, and it'd still work the same. Unless the numbers (even if they did mean something) were stamped on each and every housing, it doesnt mean anything. Besides, who here would be PROUD to have the original engine in their 7...on a car with many miles at all, by now, the original engine is just a liability, and everyone in their right mind either wants or needs a solid rebuild.

Sonny

I like how the manual shows that the engine number is so easy to see.

I found mine, but man, it was a pain in the ***! I had to remove the alternator, vacuum chamber, and all the crap in between. It was worth it though. I found that my engine was a reman dated 9/01.

Sonny

jimlab

Because too many people have heard the phrase "matching numbers" related to the value and collectability of muscle cars from the 60s and early 70s.

True, but you'll have a hard time convincing some people of that. They're too emotionally focused on owning "special" cars.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Your right and wrong depending on a technicality.

Your wrong.
Mazda DOES know what engine # is attached to which VIN so indeed they can be matched. I believe this is a Federal law.

Your right.
The VIN is not similar to the engine number.

If you have any doubts go to a Mazda dealer with your VIN, ask them to do a warranty history report. You'll get a piece of paper that shows what your car was originally. Say a Chaste White 94 PEP with tan leather and a 5sp manual transmission. It will also say what the engine number is. I'm not sure if Mazda updates this info if you buy a reman or if they only track the original number in that line item. I'd guess it is only the original engine number.

Also Gordon Monsen successfully tracked his original motor to a car that PFS sold while he got the used motor out of that same car (PFS sold).

Oh Jim, I thought you knew that 67 Mustangs didn't have engine numbers that match anything? Later on they did but IIRC not in 67. I think GM used the numbers before they were required Federally. I heard this info 2nd hand from a friend of mine with a factory Big Block Mustang with a broken block. He said it didn't matter since that year did not have engine numbers (either none at all or none that matched with the VIN).

Jeff

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

- Same pricipal applies to American built motors. You can use different components from different motors to build a complete working motor. And yet, still retain the original block.


- The 13B-REW isn't a "disposable" type Engine. IT CAN be rebuilt. When you buy a "Reman" you're not purchasing a brand spanking new Mazda 13B-REW Engine/Core. You're probably buying/installing one that's been ressurected from the grave.

jeff48

hahahahahahah 67 MUSTANG = American Muscle Car. have you ever driven one of these dogs. Nostalgia? maybe. Muscle? not hardly. I owned a 1967 Olds 442....Muscle? absolutely. More expensive than a Mustang when new? Unquestionably. Better all around car than a Mustang? Undoubtably. Worth more now? Nope.

There's no accounting for some people's tastes and rich folks like to relive their childhood and the Mustang is, for better or worse, a symbol of the baby boomer childhood. That's why they pay big bucks for it, certainly not because it is or, for that matter, ever was a decent car.

Will our cars be collectible? Maybe, but probably only to the extent that a 1967 SAAB Sonnet or a 1960's AMC Tarpon will.

JaNusSolSumnus

I think what he meant was not in the sense of a shortblock... as piston engines dont typically have rods, cams, pistons all matched to a block by numbers. But the rotor housings, side housings, front and rear housings are all a 'block'. A piston motor equivalent would be just the block alone, single peice with numbers on it.

I need to see when my motor was done (look at dates on motor), I think it is original but if not I may feel better... dunno -- Mazda said the only work this car has seen a dealer for was recalls and some plugs/oil. So if it was done it wasnt taken to the dealer.

~Kris

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I think most of you have missed my point. The ONLY identifying number stamped into a rotary engine (other than GENERIC "13b" or "mazda") is on the front iron. As a rebuilder, I can reuse your front iron and use parts from 7 different engines and hand it back to you, and you will have no way to know that it isn't the "original numbered block". Because, in the conventional (piston engine) sense of the phrase, there IS NO BLOCK in a rotary. We refer to the set of 5 plates and front cover, and rotors and eshaft as the block, but there is not a single block per se, so numbering just one part in that block (and thus worrying about the status of that number) is ludicrous.

su_maverick

I think it is more of just an idle curiosity...its alot better than answering the "whats the best bov" threads.

jimlab

He could have used a '71 Plymouth Road Runner as his example and it wouldn't have changed my comment. I wasn't looking for historical accuracy in his example. I was pointing out what kind of delusional idiocy we have rampant on this forum.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

If you think "matching engine numbers" is crazy what about all the "correct" parts/details those nutty Ferrari restorers have to do? Everything on those cars has to be "correct" the problem is they changed stuff almost daily. We aren't the crazy ones.

jimlab

I don't think matching engine numbers is crazy. I think owners of 10-12 year old Japanese sports cars worrying about matching engine numbers and whether or not their cars will become collectible is crazy.

su_maverick

well, what if we have 8 3/4 year old cars? does that change anything?

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Gotcha.

I still think Ferrari owners are crazy. Cool cars but I don't really think it matters if the brake fluid is the correct type, etc.

Toadman

You're making assumptions. And being in the right mind I AM proud to have only 42k on my 93, solid 7's + in compression both rotors.
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But I have 5k stashed away just in case.

jimlab

'95s would have been available at dealerships around September of '94... which makes your car 10 years old whether you bought it 10 years ago or not.

su_maverick

mine was produced in december of 1995...but that is pointless info, I was just trying to lighten things up because it seemed to be getting pretty heated over idle curiosity

MichaelFregoe

iTrader: (1)

Mazda does update the (on the blue plate) number on the reman engines with the VIN of the car it is going in. I know this for a fact because I have installed 3 re-man engines for people and when I pick up the engines they specifically asked me each time for the VIN of the vehicle the engine was goign into for their "records".

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

My sole purpose for this thread was to convey information that an "Engine Number" does exist, and to document it's location on the Block. Some Members were unaware the engine number existed.

Another reason for this thread was to attempt to clarify if the engine number revealed information (like a VIN does) that could be tracked back to a specific vehicle. Some members seem to think it does, and some seem to think it doesn't. According to the Mazda representative I spoke to this morning,...the engine number does not disclose vehicle/engine origin.

Still a mystery perhaps.(?)

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

No mystery.

Listen to me, call a Mazda dealer, get the warranty history report, it has your engine number on it and it is matched to the VIN.

I have done this very thing on at least 8 of the FDs I've owned. It also shows other interesting info like all the work that was done to the car under warranty, and if you get lucky you can find out the original owner's name, where he/she bought the car and which port it was shipped to, etc...

This information has been used in court, PFS lost TENS of thousands of dollars in the judgement not to mention he ultimately was driven out of the RX-7 business in part due to the judgement.

Now back to your regularly scheduled 67 Mustang conversation.

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. But I won't benifit any useful information about my car by utilizing my FDs engine number. It's a Reman. The second one my FD has housed. Though the car did come with a complete history of maintenance and ownership.


Sounds like he was underinsured.


1966 2+2 Fastback is more my cup of tea. That Hi-Perf 289 kicked some Gludius Maximus.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

How about a compromise. The engine ID number may or may not be correlated in mazda's database with car's vin #'s. Engines may or may not be able to be tracked based upon this ID number. IT is only fair to say that it matters when swapping entire shortblocks between cars...when/if the shortblock is broken apart for rebuild, the number becomes obsolete and useless. Fair?