My twins are smoking?
08-12-09, 02:40 PM
#1
My twins are smoking?
I just wanted to share with the rest of the FD community my own little experience with my 93 vr with 42K original mile and the turbo issue that I'm having.
For the past 4 months or so, I've been noticing a slight smoking coming from the tailpipe and did not give it much thought to the cause.
My FD is still running the factory twins and a base map on PFC. The minor mods the car has it is very ideal for daily driving.
However, lately the intermittent smoke from the exhaust has gotten more and more noticeable.
So I did some reading and investigated to the possible cause of this smoke and i was lead to believe two possible causes.
1-failing oil control ring
2-failing turbocharger oil seal which in the long run will lead to a runaway turbo.
I did the following checks to arrive to my conclusion that it is in fact a bad turbo.
1.Pulled the spark plug to see if they were fouled ---NO!!!
2.Checked to cold side and all the piping to verify excessive oil the I/C-NO!!!
3.Ran the car until it reached optimal temp(with out boost) to see if the smoked-NO!!!
Apparently the smoking is evident/occurs when once the exhaust system has warned up enough to burn the oil. Common sense!
I have yet to take the D/P off to examine the hot side which I suspect is the bad side since there is no excessive oil on the cold side.
At this point my question is how much longer can I run with these turbo?
Am I looking at a more extensive damage if I continue to run with these twins?
What are my option?
Sure, I can always take this opportunity and go Single but, I’ll be honest and state that I simply love the sequential set up and I rather continue the current set up as is for a while.
Rebuild vs. 99spec???
Thanks for reading
Michael
For the past 4 months or so, I've been noticing a slight smoking coming from the tailpipe and did not give it much thought to the cause.
My FD is still running the factory twins and a base map on PFC. The minor mods the car has it is very ideal for daily driving.
However, lately the intermittent smoke from the exhaust has gotten more and more noticeable.
So I did some reading and investigated to the possible cause of this smoke and i was lead to believe two possible causes.
1-failing oil control ring
2-failing turbocharger oil seal which in the long run will lead to a runaway turbo.
I did the following checks to arrive to my conclusion that it is in fact a bad turbo.
1.Pulled the spark plug to see if they were fouled ---NO!!!
2.Checked to cold side and all the piping to verify excessive oil the I/C-NO!!!
3.Ran the car until it reached optimal temp(with out boost) to see if the smoked-NO!!!
Apparently the smoking is evident/occurs when once the exhaust system has warned up enough to burn the oil. Common sense!
I have yet to take the D/P off to examine the hot side which I suspect is the bad side since there is no excessive oil on the cold side.
At this point my question is how much longer can I run with these turbo?
Am I looking at a more extensive damage if I continue to run with these twins?
What are my option?
Sure, I can always take this opportunity and go Single but, I’ll be honest and state that I simply love the sequential set up and I rather continue the current set up as is for a while.
Rebuild vs. 99spec???
Thanks for reading
Michael
08-12-09, 03:10 PM
#2
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I'm also sticking with sequential twins as long as I can. I tried rebuilding my first set of twins years ago, that went really bad. Then I got another used set, was ok for a while, and now they're leaking oil and one of the compressors is scraping the housing.
So, I decided that my next set of twins are going to be some sort of "High Flow" twins and I guess the following are my choices:
BNR Stage 3
Famspeed High Flow
Revolution High Flow
Turbo Shop M High Flow
Knight Sports RF420
99 Spec twins
Obviously, some of the above choices are in Japan.
I think the BNR's are good for obvious reasons.... we're in the US and they're in the US. They also port the wastegates (the JDM shops may do this too, but I'm not too sure, I forgot to ask them)
The Famspeed and Revolution High Flows seem to be pretty similar. Famspeed claims their High Flows make 499PS. I was curious about that and called them to find out at what boost pressure they tested at. They told me 1.3 bar, which is about 19 lbs of boost. So obviously they were using a lot of boost.
Turbo Shop M offers 3 different options I believe
Main advantage with the Knight Sports RF420 is that they are ball-bearing turbos, but they are pricey.
As for the 99 spec twins, I'm not too keen on the abraidable housings, and when I visited FEED in Japan last September, Fujita-san himself told me that they don't use the "280PS" (that's what they call them) twins, they prefer the "260PS" twins because they don't have abraidable housings. BUT, if you still want the 99spec, I know a guy in my city (Gardena) that has a low mileage set for sale.
As for price, all of the above choices are around the same price (give or take a hundred or two) except for the Knight Sports RF420 which is way more expensive.
So, I decided that my next set of twins are going to be some sort of "High Flow" twins and I guess the following are my choices:
BNR Stage 3
Famspeed High Flow
Revolution High Flow
Turbo Shop M High Flow
Knight Sports RF420
99 Spec twins
Obviously, some of the above choices are in Japan.
I think the BNR's are good for obvious reasons.... we're in the US and they're in the US. They also port the wastegates (the JDM shops may do this too, but I'm not too sure, I forgot to ask them)
The Famspeed and Revolution High Flows seem to be pretty similar. Famspeed claims their High Flows make 499PS. I was curious about that and called them to find out at what boost pressure they tested at. They told me 1.3 bar, which is about 19 lbs of boost. So obviously they were using a lot of boost.
Turbo Shop M offers 3 different options I believe
Main advantage with the Knight Sports RF420 is that they are ball-bearing turbos, but they are pricey.
As for the 99 spec twins, I'm not too keen on the abraidable housings, and when I visited FEED in Japan last September, Fujita-san himself told me that they don't use the "280PS" (that's what they call them) twins, they prefer the "260PS" twins because they don't have abraidable housings. BUT, if you still want the 99spec, I know a guy in my city (Gardena) that has a low mileage set for sale.
As for price, all of the above choices are around the same price (give or take a hundred or two) except for the Knight Sports RF420 which is way more expensive.
08-12-09, 03:38 PM
#5
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I went with BNRs.They were easy to install and have worked well todate(2 yrs old).I am running sequential,have factory main cat so emissions still work.I usually run about 13-13.5 psi.I would recommend them.
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08-12-09, 04:03 PM
#8
yeah Michael ditch the idea of rebuilding the twins... take it from me they last very little. My FD came with a service warranty and they replaced my turbos (with rebuilt units) several times. Because after just after few months they would start smoking again. I tried to reason with them about going for new instead of rebuilt but each and every time, they would not listen and go the cheaper route. Though they told me I was welcomed to pay the difference in price (over 1K) if I wanted new. My response was "to save YOU money?? don't think so..."
IRRC I got them replaced them 4 times under warranty at $1700 a pop + dealer labor + my rental lol which all of that added to over $3000 each and every time. ouch... BTW my deductible was $50
Just go BNR's, 99 spec, or brand new. I'm partial to BNR's because they are rebuildable.
M-
IRRC I got them replaced them 4 times under warranty at $1700 a pop + dealer labor + my rental lol which all of that added to over $3000 each and every time. ouch... BTW my deductible was $50
Just go BNR's, 99 spec, or brand new. I'm partial to BNR's because they are rebuildable.
M-
08-12-09, 04:10 PM
#10
great info Elliot. rebuilding is not even a thought. I am sorta leaning towards 99spec as i have mentioned above for obvious reasons.
For the price of a new 99spec i do need to look at BNR sequential Turbos.
I'm just glad that it's not the Oil control ring and i finally know for sure that the turbos are causing the smoke factor. IT's F**King Smoking DUDE i mean SMOKING!!!!
For the price of a new 99spec i do need to look at BNR sequential Turbos.
I'm just glad that it's not the Oil control ring and i finally know for sure that the turbos are causing the smoke factor. IT's F**King Smoking DUDE i mean SMOKING!!!!
08-12-09, 04:43 PM
#14
Just got off the phone with Brian of BNR and what a convincing conversation we had over the 99spec vs. BNR sequential.
they are about the same price and for the BNR's potential power in adding future mods like bigger injectors makes a lot of sense.
The only objection on going with BNR at this point is the turn around time with SS Sept 26th right around the corner.
Brian assured me that his unit is straight plug&play so even if he needs 3 weeks to have the new unit at my door i should be okay in time for the SS event.
WHy o why Do i love this shitty crappy car so damn much
they are about the same price and for the BNR's potential power in adding future mods like bigger injectors makes a lot of sense.
The only objection on going with BNR at this point is the turn around time with SS Sept 26th right around the corner.
Brian assured me that his unit is straight plug&play so even if he needs 3 weeks to have the new unit at my door i should be okay in time for the SS event.
WHy o why Do i love this shitty crappy car so damn much
08-12-09, 04:44 PM
#15
When I read the title I thought they were about your kids and I . Then I read your post and I was even more .
I'll probably be looking to replace my turbos next year sometime so Im glad you posted. I think there are ns bnrs going for 1500 on the forum. I believe thy were pretty low mile.
Thanks for the great info pac.
. Then I read your post and I was even more . I'll probably be looking to replace my turbos next year sometime so Im glad you posted. I think there are ns bnrs going for 1500 on the forum. I believe thy were pretty low mile.
Thanks for the great info pac.
09-02-09, 06:45 PM
#24
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The polished compressor housing looks great. I have a brand new set of BNR stage 3's sitting in my garage and now you got me thinking if I should do the same! Except I hate taking off those huge snap rings that hold the compressor housings!
You bought new turbo to manifold gaskets? Those gaskets plus new studs and bolts are crazy expensive! Is Ray giving you a better deal than what Mazdatrix is selling them for?
You bought new turbo to manifold gaskets? Those gaskets plus new studs and bolts are crazy expensive! Is Ray giving you a better deal than what Mazdatrix is selling them for?