My stock injector flow numbers from RC Engineering
12-01-05, 06:30 PM
#1
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My stock injector flow numbers from RC Engineering
Just got my stock injectors back from RC Engineering.
Primary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 533 Good
2- 546 Good
After:
1- 549 Excellent
2- 551 Excellent
Secondary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 837 Good
2- 811 Dripping
After:
1- 852 Excellent
2- 848 Excellent
Hmmm...flow was 2.7% low across the board and I had a dripping secondary injector that was actually 4.6% lower than spec. Bad juju. I had no idea.
And to let you guys know I cracked the primary pintle caps while removing the injectors then found out they're impossible to find new (without buying a complete new injector). RC replaces the pintle caps with a different style as part of their normal cleaning process.
Primary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 533 Good
2- 546 Good
After:
1- 549 Excellent
2- 551 Excellent
Secondary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 837 Good
2- 811 Dripping
After:
1- 852 Excellent
2- 848 Excellent
Hmmm...flow was 2.7% low across the board and I had a dripping secondary injector that was actually 4.6% lower than spec. Bad juju. I had no idea.
And to let you guys know I cracked the primary pintle caps while removing the injectors then found out they're impossible to find new (without buying a complete new injector). RC replaces the pintle caps with a different style as part of their normal cleaning process.
12-01-05, 06:57 PM
#3
development
be sure not to let them sit too long (couple weeks) before firing...the goo the use to test/cal/clean will make the injectors stick.
I think when mine came back they were all spraying 3-5% more than spec
I think when mine came back they were all spraying 3-5% more than spec
12-01-05, 08:05 PM
#4
Constant threat
Originally Posted by dubulup
be sure not to let them sit too long (couple weeks) before firing...the goo the use to test/cal/clean will make the injectors stick.
I think when mine came back they were all spraying 3-5% more than spec
I think when mine came back they were all spraying 3-5% more than spec
12-01-05, 08:41 PM
#5
Originally Posted by bajaman
Ack! It could be like....2 MONTHS before mine are reinstalled, depending on when I get my engine back and all that.......
12-01-05, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor
Just got my stock injectors back from RC Engineering.
Primary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 533 Good
2- 546 Good
After:
1- 549 Excellent
2- 551 Excellent
Secondary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 837 Good
2- 811 Dripping
After:
1- 852 Excellent
2- 848 Excellent
Hmmm...flow was 2.7% low across the board and I had a dripping secondary injector that was actually 4.6% lower than spec. Bad juju. I had no idea.
And to let you guys know I cracked the primary pintle caps while removing the injectors then found out they're impossible to find new (without buying a complete new injector). RC replaces the pintle caps with a different style as part of their normal cleaning process.
Primary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 533 Good
2- 546 Good
After:
1- 549 Excellent
2- 551 Excellent
Secondary's flow and spray pattern before cleaning:
1- 837 Good
2- 811 Dripping
After:
1- 852 Excellent
2- 848 Excellent
Hmmm...flow was 2.7% low across the board and I had a dripping secondary injector that was actually 4.6% lower than spec. Bad juju. I had no idea.
And to let you guys know I cracked the primary pintle caps while removing the injectors then found out they're impossible to find new (without buying a complete new injector). RC replaces the pintle caps with a different style as part of their normal cleaning process.
what is your injector duty cycle like running 322whp and stock injectors?
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12-01-05, 09:56 PM
#8
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I just had all 4 of mine including two 550's and two 1300's. Mine were only 2 years old and all were dirty and one of my 1300cc's were dripping as well.
I'll post the specs. when I get em. But, I'm wondering if they tell everyone that an injector was dripping ?? Regardless, I know they're flowing 100% now.
How Often do they need cleaning anyone ?? Again, my injectors were ALL brand new 2 years ago.
I'll post the specs. when I get em. But, I'm wondering if they tell everyone that an injector was dripping ?? Regardless, I know they're flowing 100% now.
How Often do they need cleaning anyone ?? Again, my injectors were ALL brand new 2 years ago.
12-01-05, 10:51 PM
#9
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by badass7
I just had all 4 of mine including two 550's and two 1300's. Mine were only 2 years old and all were dirty and one of my 1300cc's were dripping as well.
I'll post the specs. when I get em. But, I'm wondering if they tell everyone that an injector was dripping ?? Regardless, I know they're flowing 100% now.
How Often do they need cleaning anyone ?? Again, my injectors were ALL brand new 2 years ago.
I'll post the specs. when I get em. But, I'm wondering if they tell everyone that an injector was dripping ?? Regardless, I know they're flowing 100% now.
How Often do they need cleaning anyone ?? Again, my injectors were ALL brand new 2 years ago.
not sure about how often you need to clean them. Do those fuel injector additives work at all? Do you run premix? What made you take your injectors out to clean?
Just asking as I have 550/1300 as well but with only 1000 miles on them.
EDIT: wasn't there a thread that had some mazda fuel injector cleaner that seemed to work better than any standard off the shelf stuff? I'll try to find that link
Last edited by 7racer; 12-01-05 at 10:54 PM.
12-01-05, 10:59 PM
#10
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
ok this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...+cleaner+mazda
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...+cleaner+mazda
The MAZDA corp recommends the following:
Subject:
FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER
DESCRIPTION
To improve fuel injection performance, Mazda has tested and approved a highly effective FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER. The kit and cleaner is recommended for all Mazda fuel injection systems. Mazda's Fuel Injector Cleaner uses a chemical "reducing agent" rather than the common solvent used in the typical aftermarket cleaners. As a result, in tests against aftermarket competitors, Mazda's cleaner outperformed all others and was the only one to restore the fuel injector's flow rate to the original factory specifications.
Dirty fuel injectors are an increasing common problem. Many cases are due to gasoline deposits such as gum, resin and sulfur. These deposits can cause stalling, difficult starting, rough idle and diminished power.
The part number is 0000 77 2019
************************************************** ********************
Subject:
FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER
DESCRIPTION
To improve fuel injection performance, Mazda has tested and approved a highly effective FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER. The kit and cleaner is recommended for all Mazda fuel injection systems. Mazda's Fuel Injector Cleaner uses a chemical "reducing agent" rather than the common solvent used in the typical aftermarket cleaners. As a result, in tests against aftermarket competitors, Mazda's cleaner outperformed all others and was the only one to restore the fuel injector's flow rate to the original factory specifications.
Dirty fuel injectors are an increasing common problem. Many cases are due to gasoline deposits such as gum, resin and sulfur. These deposits can cause stalling, difficult starting, rough idle and diminished power.
The part number is 0000 77 2019
************************************************** ********************
12-01-05, 11:04 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by desmond
what is your injector duty cycle like running 322whp and stock injectors?
12-02-05, 12:21 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Trevor
88% at 15 psi, 11.3:1 AFR, and 340 RWHP...I'm spraying 631cc/min of denatured alcohol on top of the stock fuel.
so by that calculation i assume im making over 310+whp @12.5 b/c my IDC is around 90%+ at full throttle. i need 1300's. this is assuming a 15% or so drivetrain loss
12-02-05, 03:48 PM
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I believe mazda recommends cleaning every 15k, likewise replacing fuel filter every 15k. I've sent mine off to RC twice and each time the before and after numbers and spray patterns are significantly different. For my car, the fuel filter did dump dirty after 15k. another way to look at it is every 1000 gallons.
12-02-05, 04:54 PM
#14
Ack, so you figure a 30-40k original mileage motor needs it's fuel-filter changed..
Ack, I haven't done that yet. >_>
OEM filter from Mazda dealership only, I take it? o_O
I have these Taylor Pro spark plug wires that I've been meaning to put in too. I coulda sworn my car's already got Magnacore's already in there though.. (I just got her about 2 weeks ago, go easy)
Ack, I haven't done that yet. >_>
OEM filter from Mazda dealership only, I take it? o_O
I have these Taylor Pro spark plug wires that I've been meaning to put in too. I coulda sworn my car's already got Magnacore's already in there though.. (I just got her about 2 weeks ago, go easy)
12-03-05, 08:56 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by 7racer
ok this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...+cleaner+mazda
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...+cleaner+mazda
An in the tank additive will be about 90% effective. An off the car cleaning with good equipment, such as an ASNU machine or equivelent is 100% effective.
An ASNU uses hot chemical and ultra sound to clean. We use ASNU.
Joe Geiman
Gasoline Alley Fuel Injection
Speedway, In
www.lindertech.com
12-03-05, 06:44 PM
#16
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joe!
thanks for chiming in and offering your expert advice.
I was wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on boring out the secondary injectors to 1300.
For some wierd reason the 1300cc bored out injectors have had a run of possible failures causing engine loss. However, other bored out sized have not.
Any comments of the longevity of bored out injectors? 1300 too large?
Thanks again.
thanks for chiming in and offering your expert advice.
I was wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on boring out the secondary injectors to 1300.
For some wierd reason the 1300cc bored out injectors have had a run of possible failures causing engine loss. However, other bored out sized have not.
Any comments of the longevity of bored out injectors? 1300 too large?
Thanks again.
Originally Posted by Joe Geiman
The Mazda cleaner works well. Chevron Injector Cleaner with Techron does too.
An in the tank additive will be about 90% effective. An off the car cleaning with good equipment, such as an ASNU machine or equivelent is 100% effective.
An ASNU uses hot chemical and ultra sound to clean. We use ASNU.
Joe Geiman
Gasoline Alley Fuel Injection
Speedway, In
www.lindertech.com
An in the tank additive will be about 90% effective. An off the car cleaning with good equipment, such as an ASNU machine or equivelent is 100% effective.
An ASNU uses hot chemical and ultra sound to clean. We use ASNU.
Joe Geiman
Gasoline Alley Fuel Injection
Speedway, In
www.lindertech.com
12-03-05, 07:39 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by 7racer
Joe!
thanks for chiming in and offering your expert advice.
I was wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on boring out the secondary injectors to 1300.
For some wierd reason the 1300cc bored out injectors have had a run of possible failures causing engine loss. However, other bored out sized have not.
Any comments of the longevity of bored out injectors? 1300 too large?
Thanks again.
thanks for chiming in and offering your expert advice.
I was wondering if you wouldn't mind commenting on boring out the secondary injectors to 1300.
For some wierd reason the 1300cc bored out injectors have had a run of possible failures causing engine loss. However, other bored out sized have not.
Any comments of the longevity of bored out injectors? 1300 too large?
Thanks again.
If you need a 1300cc flow, buy the best unmodified injector. There are several sources that have these available.
The problem with modified injectors include:
Poor spray pattern
non linearity of fuel delivery
Difficulty to get flow rates to match injector to injector
Internal and external leakage issues when injectors are disassembled
to modifiy.
Let me assure you, we have throughly pursued ALL avenues to modify injectors to increase flow. We concluded that the best situation was to use the non-modified injector with the flow rate that fits your application.
Joe Geiman
Gasoline Alley Fuel Injection
Speedway, In
www.lindertech.com
12-03-05, 07:55 PM
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Where do some of you come up with this stuff?
Mazda recommends (See the Manual) replacing the FD fuel filter every 60 thousand miles.
If your Mazda dealer recommends cleaning the injectors every 15K, then they are just looking for a wallet to soak, not an injector.
As for the injectors needing cleaning - if it ain't broke...
If you all are into heavy racing, I can see spending the time/money to get the injectors cleaned on some schedule, but if it is a DD or a car that you take to the track only occasionally, the I think you are wasting your money.
Most people drive their cars hundreds of thousands of miles without bothering with the injectors.
Originally Posted by danny hahn
I believe mazda recommends cleaning every 15k, likewise replacing fuel filter every 15k. I've sent mine off to RC twice and each time the before and after numbers and spray patterns are significantly different. For my car, the fuel filter did dump dirty after 15k. another way to look at it is every 1000 gallons.
If your Mazda dealer recommends cleaning the injectors every 15K, then they are just looking for a wallet to soak, not an injector.
As for the injectors needing cleaning - if it ain't broke...
If you all are into heavy racing, I can see spending the time/money to get the injectors cleaned on some schedule, but if it is a DD or a car that you take to the track only occasionally, the I think you are wasting your money.
Most people drive their cars hundreds of thousands of miles without bothering with the injectors.
Last edited by GodsOwnThunder; 12-03-05 at 08:14 PM.
12-03-05, 08:06 PM
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Fuel Filter
Originally Posted by YoshiFC3S
Ack, so you figure a 30-40k original mileage motor needs it's fuel-filter changed..
Ack, I haven't done that yet. >_>
OEM filter from Mazda dealership only, I take it? o_O
I have these Taylor Pro spark plug wires that I've been meaning to put in too. I coulda sworn my car's already got Magnacore's already in there though.. (I just got her about 2 weeks ago, go easy)
Ack, I haven't done that yet. >_>
OEM filter from Mazda dealership only, I take it? o_O
I have these Taylor Pro spark plug wires that I've been meaning to put in too. I coulda sworn my car's already got Magnacore's already in there though.. (I just got her about 2 weeks ago, go easy)
The filter from Mazda is $75 (not including installation - my dealer)
From AutoZone it is $24.
12-03-05, 08:25 PM
#20
Originally Posted by danny hahn
I believe mazda recommends cleaning every 15k, likewise replacing fuel filter every 15k. I've sent mine off to RC twice and each time the before and after numbers and spray patterns are significantly different. For my car, the fuel filter did dump dirty after 15k. another way to look at it is every 1000 gallons.
12-03-05, 09:04 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by dubulup
be sure not to let them sit too long (couple weeks) before firing...the goo the use to test/cal/clean will make the injectors stick.
If you do have one stick after sitting, sometimes a (slight) tap on the injector while it is operating will help get it free again. Be careful.....
Gordon
WitchHunter Performance
Fuel Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing
12-03-05, 10:17 PM
#22
Rotary Enthusiast
I've had injectors cleaned at RC for my FD and other cars. They always were "good" before and "excellent" after. I think RC calls the spray pattern "good" by default and then "excellent" by default if your injectors were good before cleaning anyway.
I sent my injectors to RC because I had them out anyway. I would never bother to have them cleaned by RC unless I had them out for some other reason.
I sent my injectors to RC because I had them out anyway. I would never bother to have them cleaned by RC unless I had them out for some other reason.
01-01-06, 04:14 PM
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I was doing a search saw this thread and what I wrote and wanted to correct myself.
I'll back up, mazda doesn't recommend filter change at 15,000. But I would suggest changing it that often.
Consider this, I recall reading once that the miata and the rx-7 filter are the same part, and the miata gets twice the gas mileage than the 7 and I think someone said that the suggested miata filter replacement may have been at 30k. Which would equate to about 1000 gals of gas.
Ok, I too thought this was a little often, but 23k since servicing the injectors and replacing the fuel filter my car was down with a turbo repair so I took the opportunity to send my injectors to RC and the results came back before cleaning 535 good, 545 good, 829 dripping, 844 good. For kicks we replaced the filter and my mechanic said it dumped dirty. From this experience I suggest changing the fuel filter more often.
I'll back up, mazda doesn't recommend filter change at 15,000. But I would suggest changing it that often.
Consider this, I recall reading once that the miata and the rx-7 filter are the same part, and the miata gets twice the gas mileage than the 7 and I think someone said that the suggested miata filter replacement may have been at 30k. Which would equate to about 1000 gals of gas.
Ok, I too thought this was a little often, but 23k since servicing the injectors and replacing the fuel filter my car was down with a turbo repair so I took the opportunity to send my injectors to RC and the results came back before cleaning 535 good, 545 good, 829 dripping, 844 good. For kicks we replaced the filter and my mechanic said it dumped dirty. From this experience I suggest changing the fuel filter more often.
01-01-06, 10:34 PM
#25
Originally Posted by GodsOwnThunder
Mazda recommends (See the Manual) replacing the FD fuel filter every 60 thousand miles.
Which is completely useless in properly maintaining a boosted rotary. Lean causes kaboom. Would you want to leave your fuel filter in that long when you know it could cost your your engine?
As for the injectors needing cleaning - if it ain't broke...
Most people drive their cars hundreds of thousands of miles without bothering with the injectors.
Most people drive their cars hundreds of thousands of miles without bothering with the injectors.
And most cars don't have 2 stages of injection like a rotary does. You fail to realize that it's the secondary injectors that usually clogs. It all depends on your driving habits. Secondaries don't fire as often as compared to the primaries that's why they leak and stick more. They only come on depending on how much throttle that's being applied. Clogged/improperly flowing secondaries can and will cost you your boost rotary engine. If anything the secondaries should be cleaned every 50k or so.
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