My Day at Gotham Racing (pics)
Glug Glug Glug Burp
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,819
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From: Scott AFB, IL
Originally posted by jdhuegel1
Guys, Dave (BigIslandSevens) has been a great help to me and many others on the forum. Stand up guy. He's not even the one that pointed out the safety and responsibility issues of street tuning.. No need to bash all over him. He has opinions like everyone else. Both sides have valid points. Yes 140 is not exactly safe on the street.. But not many things are these days... Can we get back to something productive like discussing how to replicate real driving envirnments in a facility with a dyno?
Guys, Dave (BigIslandSevens) has been a great help to me and many others on the forum. Stand up guy. He's not even the one that pointed out the safety and responsibility issues of street tuning.. No need to bash all over him. He has opinions like everyone else. Both sides have valid points. Yes 140 is not exactly safe on the street.. But not many things are these days... Can we get back to something productive like discussing how to replicate real driving envirnments in a facility with a dyno?
Rotary Freak
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
From: maryland
I got pulled over while tuning. As a matter of fact I just went to court today. He clocked me at 74 in a 50 cresting a hill then lost me, I accelerated all the way through 3rd and into 4th...maybe 120.
I pulled over after he caught up to me, he asked what the computer and all the wires were for, I told him "nothing" and he wrote the ticket. I got no points and $140 fine. Better then a blown motor if you ask me.
I pulled over after he caught up to me, he asked what the computer and all the wires were for, I told him "nothing" and he wrote the ticket. I got no points and $140 fine. Better then a blown motor if you ask me.
Rotary Freak
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: fort worth, tx, usa
pretty much all of the dynos I have seen have load depend function to apply brakes at a certain RPM..
The issue here is time and lack of air. I melted a few stationary gear bearings from tuning part throttle, injector staging and driveability on my own car back in 97. None of which was even long enough on the dyno to think that it is an issue. If you have an oil temp gauge, you'll see that the oil temp jumps to 250-260F in a matter 60-80 secs (that is with a fan blowing to the oil cooler). I have learned a few different methods to tune driveability w/o using load function on the dyno but simulating load is the worst you could do in any car (especially if you sustain the load for more than 30secs).
The issue here is time and lack of air. I melted a few stationary gear bearings from tuning part throttle, injector staging and driveability on my own car back in 97. None of which was even long enough on the dyno to think that it is an issue. If you have an oil temp gauge, you'll see that the oil temp jumps to 250-260F in a matter 60-80 secs (that is with a fan blowing to the oil cooler). I have learned a few different methods to tune driveability w/o using load function on the dyno but simulating load is the worst you could do in any car (especially if you sustain the load for more than 30secs).
Originally posted by Jason
If you want to simulate load then you get a Mustang dyno. Street tuning will give you more of an accurate A/F reading but you can compensate for that on the dyno. One thing you cant tune on the street is the timing unless every car has an EGT gauge. For most people im sure safe timing is fine but you can pickup alot of HP from just 1-2 degree of timing advance.
I paid about $40k for my dyno and it was worth it.
My only problem with street tuning is I dont trust the guy driving the car. If something goes wrong at 140 you can kiss your *** goodby.
Side note: Im suprised that there is tuning at the Revolution. That is saying they condone going out and breaking the law. Nothing against them but Im sure if something went wrong and someone killed themselve there would be legal issues of somesort.
Jason
If you want to simulate load then you get a Mustang dyno. Street tuning will give you more of an accurate A/F reading but you can compensate for that on the dyno. One thing you cant tune on the street is the timing unless every car has an EGT gauge. For most people im sure safe timing is fine but you can pickup alot of HP from just 1-2 degree of timing advance.
I paid about $40k for my dyno and it was worth it.
My only problem with street tuning is I dont trust the guy driving the car. If something goes wrong at 140 you can kiss your *** goodby.
Side note: Im suprised that there is tuning at the Revolution. That is saying they condone going out and breaking the law. Nothing against them but Im sure if something went wrong and someone killed themselve there would be legal issues of somesort.
Jason
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
From: Fenton, MI
Originally posted by Jason
Side note: Im suprised that there is tuning at the Revolution. That is saying they condone going out and breaking the law. Nothing against them but Im sure if something went wrong and someone killed themselve there would be legal issues of somesort.
Side note: Im suprised that there is tuning at the Revolution. That is saying they condone going out and breaking the law. Nothing against them but Im sure if something went wrong and someone killed themselve there would be legal issues of somesort.
We do expect if he street tunes he will drive out to the freeways and make some pulls out there, but again that is an agreement between he and the driver/car he is tuning.
It sounds like you guys have a real winner at the shop with your new dyno, congratulations. I can't wait to see you and Xavier show off what your 3rd gens can do on the strip at the event.
Originally posted by ReodDai
Not sure how ignorance fit into what I said. All I said was get over it and stop whining. Its ok Big Kahuna we forgive you for not having anything better to do.
Not sure how ignorance fit into what I said. All I said was get over it and stop whining. Its ok Big Kahuna we forgive you for not having anything better to do.
Mustang and a couple of dynos from Australia are the only ones I know that put a constant load on the car.
I havent had any problems with temps but I do a couple of pulls at a time and then let the car cool.
Jason
I havent had any problems with temps but I do a couple of pulls at a time and then let the car cool.
Jason
Originally posted by MichRX7
You bring up a good point Jason. Steve is contracted by the event to do the tuning. It is his and the car owner's decision where that tuning is done. We do have a mobile dyno at the event that could be used. We do not expect him to be running down the roads of Indianapolis at 140 mph with someone else driving while he tunes their car.
We do expect if he street tunes he will drive out to the freeways and make some pulls out there, but again that is an agreement between he and the driver/car he is tuning.
It sounds like you guys have a real winner at the shop with your new dyno, congratulations. I can't wait to see you and Xavier show off what your 3rd gens can do on the strip at the event.
You bring up a good point Jason. Steve is contracted by the event to do the tuning. It is his and the car owner's decision where that tuning is done. We do have a mobile dyno at the event that could be used. We do not expect him to be running down the roads of Indianapolis at 140 mph with someone else driving while he tunes their car.
We do expect if he street tunes he will drive out to the freeways and make some pulls out there, but again that is an agreement between he and the driver/car he is tuning.
It sounds like you guys have a real winner at the shop with your new dyno, congratulations. I can't wait to see you and Xavier show off what your 3rd gens can do on the strip at the event.
I just thought there maybe some legal issues if something happened to someone.
Jason
no
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, TX / Tokyo, Japan currently
Heat Treated, I was up at Gotham too that day and met you. Your car looks nice in person. Did you end up buying some of that "easy clean" stuff or whatever it's called? It sure did bring the white out
Just thought I'd pop in to say hi again. Hope things work out with the motor for you.
Just thought I'd pop in to say hi again. Hope things work out with the motor for you.
Thread Starter
Hi Powr FD's
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
From: OKC
Hey Suganuma
ahh, EASY OFF! .. Ive been tryin to remember the name of that stuff! thanx.
Now i can search for it online to buy some
As for my car, Im going threw it thoroughly before I just throw in some Block Weld. Atleast drive it around before I decide what to do.
ahh, EASY OFF! .. Ive been tryin to remember the name of that stuff! thanx.
Now i can search for it online to buy some
As for my car, Im going threw it thoroughly before I just throw in some Block Weld. Atleast drive it around before I decide what to do.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 1
From: Memphis, TN - wishin' i was back in Ft Worth
is that the car i drove while you tuned? the guy from houston? did he come back for the motor to be rebuilt? that car was pretty quick, just too much lag.
when i first saw this thread, i thought that was a pic of my car in the shop.....then i noticed no wing.
when i first saw this thread, i thought that was a pic of my car in the shop.....then i noticed no wing
.
1JZ powered
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,423
Likes: 0
From: Where there's only two seasons, hot and wet! I love Okinawa
Originally posted by 93BlackFD
if you are afraid to take your car to 140mph, but you're paying to have it tuned
you should sell your car
if you are afraid to take your car to 140mph, but you're paying to have it tuned
you should sell your car
Perpetual Rebuilder
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, Washington
I do all of my tuning, as well as help tuning with another FD, on the road. You have to do it in 4th, otherwise everything happens way to fast to see, much less tune. That means you will be breaking the speed limit pretty much the whole run.
The thing to keep in mind is just choose the right place and right time. There are places near everywhere that can be used, and I would guess there are more such places in Texas. Dont go downtown during the 5 o'clock rush. I like to tune early weekend mornings out on a highway that is little used near my house.
I am sure Steve and his tunee chose the best possible place for their tuning session and took care to not endanger others while doing it, as any reasonably intelligent person would. They were there and they had all of the information to make the decision. And while I am sure Steve is dedicated to rotary tuning I am also sure he is not going to risk his life, or others, for any amount of money short of $5 mil or so....
I think street tuning, while a bit more difficult and time consuming, is far better than dynojet tuning because it is real world- the dyno does not duplicate all factors and is only a reasonable but not perfect substitute if available.
Shawn
The thing to keep in mind is just choose the right place and right time. There are places near everywhere that can be used, and I would guess there are more such places in Texas. Dont go downtown during the 5 o'clock rush. I like to tune early weekend mornings out on a highway that is little used near my house.
I am sure Steve and his tunee chose the best possible place for their tuning session and took care to not endanger others while doing it, as any reasonably intelligent person would. They were there and they had all of the information to make the decision. And while I am sure Steve is dedicated to rotary tuning I am also sure he is not going to risk his life, or others, for any amount of money short of $5 mil or so....
I think street tuning, while a bit more difficult and time consuming, is far better than dynojet tuning because it is real world- the dyno does not duplicate all factors and is only a reasonable but not perfect substitute if available.
Shawn
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Frisco, TX
FWIW, I've been doing my tuning on a long uphill section of highway in 3rd. The extra load keeps the rpms from climbing too quickly for the datalogit to record.
I'm starting to see about a one-cell lag on the PFC as I get the car tuned; e.g.- if I change the fuel setting for N12, I'll see a change in AFR in N13. I think you could also turn on the AC to load up the engine, although I haven't had to do this yet to get accurate results, and I'd rather not introduce another variable.
I'm starting to see about a one-cell lag on the PFC as I get the car tuned; e.g.- if I change the fuel setting for N12, I'll see a change in AFR in N13. I think you could also turn on the AC to load up the engine, although I haven't had to do this yet to get accurate results, and I'd rather not introduce another variable.
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