Has anyone installed the MK60 ABS in an RX7?

For anyone unfamiliar, this is a stand-alone motorsports grade ABS and stability control system that was used in the E46 M3 among other places. It is becoming a popular addition for resto-mods, and track cars. There's a kit to fit them in the Miata, and I've seen them installed in swapped E30s and a few other places. A proper install uses an acceleration / yaw sensor for proper stability control, and can control the brakes individually like the Series 8 RX7 ABS.

Here is a Turbo Miata MK60 ABS installation guide
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...-guide-100731/

 

On my second E46(02, 04), I'll vouch for the system prowess. I've given the install a glancing thought myself, but my lack of ABS has precluded it going any further. Would love to see someone pick up this baton and run to the finishlise with it! All the nest!!

 

This is the first I've heard of this. It is a really intriguing idea, but I think this is a very limited application.

At the end of the day this is a LOT of work to do this and a LOT of custom work. You are also messing with a safety system on the car, if you screw something up you could either have ABS not work when you really need it or worst case the ABS kick in during regular driving.

I would be very hesitant to do this on a street car. IMHO this is a track-only mod. I believe that Miata writeup was done for use on a track-only Miata as well.

Dale

 

its a pretty simple system, ABS. when the brake switch is on, it just counts teeth and if one stops it unbrakes that corner....

 

This is an interesting idea, but agree with Dale that you would need a significant custom engineering effort to make it work right on the FD platform, especially when you consider the all the safety factors involved. Best case, it may be suitable for a track only toy, and even then probably only for very specific track types & track conditions. Off the top of my head, here are a few concerns that come to mind with the integration:

1. Brake line plumbing & mechanical fabrication/interfaces: The USDM FD is a 3-channel hydraulic circuit (i.e., both rears on a single line), and this replacement ABS system is a 4 channel, so you'll need to fabricate individual brake lines from the ABS unit to each rear wheel. Then there are all the other mechanical integration factors - where will the ABS unit be mounted & how?; ability to plumb brake lines between brake master cylinder & ABS unit?; will the stock FD master cylinder & power brake unit be compatible WRT braking performance (i.e., piston size/displacement required, etc.) with this ABS unit?

2. ABS sensors - can the ABS unit use the existing FD ABS sensors as-is, or will this too involve a mechanical/electrical integration effort to install substitute ABS sensors at each wheel?

3. Electrical & software interface/integration - Pretty obvious that a custom wiring harness will need to be fabricated to electrically interface the new ABS control unit to the FD's power and ABS sensors (or alternate ABS sensors, and/or an aftermarket engine ECU & CAN bus). But what about calibrating & tuning the ABS control response algorithms for the FD chassis? What kind of software user interface is used to do that and how? Would assume this effort would require some track time on a closed track under as many different road conditions as possible (i.e., dry, wet, ice, snow, different pavement materials, etc.) to get it just right as the FD clearly has very different braking/weight transfer characteristics than the E30/M3 platform.

 

All valid concerns. I've reached out to a shop that specializes in MK60 installs. They say they have done a few FD RX7s already, so all your concerns have a solution. The hard parts cost under $3500 so it's far from a dream, plenty of people dropping $4k+ on BBKs. MK60 ABS is also legal in variety of racing classes as a stand-alone option, so it's well supported in different chassis and proven in different chassis. Main racing benefit is saving tires from flat spotting. For a fast road car the benefits are obvious with changing surfaces, rain, etc.

It can be used as a stand-alone install, without needing ECU integration. You use the MK60 sensors, adapted to the FD. However most ABS sensors are simple magnetic pickups so some can likely be re-used.

MK60 was used by Audi, BMW, Ford, Mazda, Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, and Volvo in a variety of applications. The basic software MK60 allows a little bit of "slip" between wheels, and the MK60E (M3 CSL ABS software) allows more "slip" before activating the ABS or DSC. Basically, unless you are professionally racing, the stock profile will work very very well, and is used by the OEMs in it's "base configuration" for a variety of sports cars. If you want to get it tuned specifically for your chassis, that can be done as well.

A lot more info here:
https://3dmmotorsport.com/blogs/mk60...e-abs-overview

 

I am very intrigued by this could you tell me what shop you reached out too?

 

AFAIK, the ABS is something of a self-contained system. If you can get the computer talking to sensors and the pump, and the pump talking to each wheel's brake lines, that's pretty much it.

Some/Many of us have altered the braking/weight transfer/dynamics of the cars as it is with massively stiffer springs/shocks, big brakes/race pads, and wider race rubber, an asking the crappy old OE system to deal with it. If this system can be retro'd into a Miata, it could be on an RX7. It may be safer than old 90's systems potentially triggering "Ice mode."

Could be that a safer in between would be a later model Mazda 16-bit (I believe ours are 8-bit) system.

 

It sounds like this could be done and make for a solid system. But really with that amount of work and that price it's really only for the serious track car. This makes zero sense to do on a street car.

I can see the benefits for a track car though for sure. If you are flat spotting tires and this system helps prevent that it could somewhat pay for itself over time in longer tire life which can be a big expense on a track car.

Dale

 

if you do a little searching people have added the later 16 bit system to the early cars. way back in the day we ran an FC with ABS at the track and it would turn the tires into octagons, which is pretty funny

in the Honda world the ABS is completely standalone, its got its own harness and everything, so its easy to move car to car or relocate for better weight distribution. the Honda system was 4 channel too, so even in 1992 the FD ABS system wasn't that great, lol

 

 

It's an OEM ABS system designed for and used in performance oriented mass produced cars. Every new car available for the last 20 years has ABS. Writing it off as a serious track-only mod is pretty limited thinking imho

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+1 ive rebuilt a couple of Rx7 units and its actually very simple. if you think like EFI stuff, its got a CAS on each wheel, and a solenoid on each brake line (except the Rx7, which only has 3 cause they were cheap), and when the CAS stops turning, it uses the solenoid to lower brake line pressure. there is a pump that can add pressure back if needed, or is supposed to, again the Mazda ABS relays are kind of famous for not working

 

I've been working on a kit that adapts the master cylinder from a [I forget the exact model bmw] but the stroke and bore i think will work out nicely for an FD. I think it was staggered front bore of 25mm and a slightly smaller rear bore. The MK60 is supposedly an excellent standalone and there is a master thread on a miata forum about what all is needed to do the retrofit. I would have had this finished if I hadn't started the DCT adapter kit. So far, adapting the wheel speed sensors has been tricky, but not impossible. Just need to take my drawings to get machined. The part I haven't figured out is if I can mount the pump on the other side of the car. Either way I have to make all new lines, may as well clean things up a bit on the exhaust side.

Pros:
standalone system with digital and canbus outputs for things like wheel speed, brake line pressures, etc.
4 channel
Very much improved algorithms over the fd 3-channel

cons:
Lots of custom work
need to use the BMW sensors. They are a specific style that are actually directional... and side-specific on the fronts.
cost? (Do we still look at this or just accept that FD stands for Financial Disaster?)

 

I think he is saying that the work to retrofit this system into an FD would only see real benefit from someone racing the FD. Not a cruiser that is only driven 3 or 4 10ths at most. And, I would agree if that is the case. You need to run new brake lines, new sensors that all require custom brackets and position. I don't think it's necessary, but adapting the BMW master cylinder gains brake pressure sensors. Need to make a mount for the pump/computer assembly. Need to make your wiring for the abs pump/computer assembly. Oh, and it also needs the yaw sensor wired in and mounted in a position that it is expecting to see. I have read that steering position may even enable more features, but I am still researching that part.

 

Really appreciate the response, would be great if you were able to document everything necessary for the FD. I really hope most of us building engines aren't planning on 3 or 4 10ths driving, at least I don't. Simply being able to stop better in a daily driving type emergency is a plus, especially considering what the cars and parts cost these days.

I would be interested in getting a set of those machined parts. I'll PM you, maybe we can work something out?

 

It seems to me you could possibly also consider the 2004-2006 RX8 non-DCT ABS, might be a bit cheaper, but possibly harder to locate since it only came on the earlier non-optioned “base” package chassis.

 

there is a company that sells the adapter harness, the sensors, and the pump if they have them as well as tuning. if your interested feel free to shoot me a message I can send you the info.

 

Installing this system is WAY safer for street cars than the stock ABS, and especially the countless amount of street driven cars that remove the abs all together.

I'd like to see someone come up with a hardware and harness kit for the FD.

 

I've found a few companies, but none of them offer a hardware kit. Monkman33 seems to be working on the hardware side of things. I know it's been used in FDs successfully already, this isn't new ground, just uncommon due to cost. Anticipating ~$4k all said and done, not unrealistic, but a good amount of money for sure.

 

I’m pretty sure the Series 8 FD is not a 4 channel system, but rather a 3 channel like the previous years. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Series 8 is not a single model - there were 2 versions, version 5 and 6, and the ABS system changed between versions.

The version 5 model (Dec 99 to Sept 00) has basically the same ABS system as earlier models with some software improvements.

The version 6 model (Sept 00 to Aug 02) saw an upgraded ABS system, moving from 8 bit 3 channel to 16 bit 4 channel with the additional of an EBD (electrically controlled braking distribution) system.

 

My friends and I have been talking about this system. $10k. The OP already mentioned it, but it's the same system used in the 2003-2006 BMW E46 M3 if you're trying to save some money.

https://www.gomuchfaster.com/product...gn=sag_organic

 

The Bosch system isn't the same as the Continental Teves MK60. Bosch is a motorsports system with user programable software and a host of other motorsports enhancements for race teams. The price reflects this.

Edit: the M5 in the name has nothing to do with BMW, it's just a name Bosch uses

 

And none of the FD systems had DSC, which is included with the MK60 and can be turned off with a switch if you want the adjustability