Seven93

Hi..

I am about to buy the 2 mm Mazdatrix ceramic apex seals and i want to hear if anybody have a good axperience with it..???

I think they are very expensive but there must be a reason that they cost so much..?? Or is it just for stupid people like me that i think price and quality must follow along....

Are they ok or is it crap....??

Thanx

maxcooper

They are Ianetti ceramic seals, and they have been available for a long time (a proven product). I had Mazdatrix use those in my recent rebuild since I had to make a choice and there were doubts about the RA and new Mazda 2-piece seals floating around at the time.

The ceramics are excellent seals, but whether they are worth the price premium or not depends on the buyer. I am still getting my car together, so I don't have anything to report about their performance. They should work better (than metal seals) at high RPM since they weigh less and should be less likely to float or chatter and they also have less friction with the rotor housing, which some say gives a torque increase. The 1-piece seals should be less likely to crack from detonation (since the point at the corner seal junction is eliminated), but they probably don't seal the combustion chamber as well as multi-piece seals. They use stiff springs (because of the low friction), though, which should help sealing at low RPM.

But again, that is all hearsay since I haven't fired my car up to see how they perform first hand yet.

-Max

Seven93

Hi..

Thanx for your fast reply.. I forgot to say that i Have a HKS T04R full turbine kit with all incl. I made 406 hp before my apex seals broke.

I need now some apex seals who can work with that turbo and not going to broke again.
I found the ceramic seals and think that was the perfect thing to do, but who knows....

cover8

detonation will bust any seal...there is no substitute for good tuning (and water injection)

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

maxcooper

Agreed, you can still break ceramic seals. They aren't magic.

-Max

rzograbian

the difference with ceramic and other seals (other than the price ) is that if they break, they just shatter and come out of the exhaust. they dont cause any damage to internal engine parts. so if your internals are new, you should give it a shot!

Rhode_Dog

Ceramic ones don't seal well if they are utilized in used housings right?

Trexthe3rd

Not bashing your expertise, but how exactly do you expect shattered pieces of ceramic (which is harder and more temperature resistant than most metals) thrashing about in the rotor housing to not damage the housing surface and just "come out"? What about the turbine blades spinning at 150,000 rpm that's in the way?

jimlab

He's just repeating one of the more popular myths about ceramic seals.

Larz

I thought they were supposed to be the gift that keeps on giving. I heard they can be used over again if you choose to do another rebuild down the road. Just something I heard. Don't take this as the truth.

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Jim I think he is simply confusing them with the Carbon Seals. Still a pretty silly mistake but, I think it's common knowledge that ceramics are less likely to go, but with that performance you pay the cost dearly if you do **** them up enough to go, because they scar the housings so badly.

Meanwhile the carbon seals that are popular for P-Port Race engines may not last forever in the long run, but when they do decide to chunk, they exit the exhaust ports a great deal more delicately than the ceramics.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I have heard, from friends with first hand experience, that ceramics make a BIG mess when they go. Trash rotor housings and rotors bigtime, take out turbos, you name it.

Personally, I'd run normal apex seals and spend the price difference on a good tuner. That will get you a LOT more bang for the buck than the ceramics. Even then, you'd end up with money left over.

Dale

855m0n0

iTrader: (1)

I have ceramic apex seals and also a good tune.

The ceramic apex seals are going to f--- up as much stuff as any other when they go. The selling point for them has not ever been they are great when the fail. The reason to buy them is they tend to take more abuse before they go and they also tend to seal a bit better.

jimlab

Agreed.

maxcooper

Every time a stock seal has broken on my car, they have trashed the rotor, housing, and turbo(s). I don't see any disadvantage to ceramic seals trashing everything on the way out -- stock seals trash everything, too.

Assuming they aren't broken, you can reuse ceramic seals in a rebuild without significantly compromising quality.

I actually bought some RA seals for my rebuild, but I got cold feet about using them since there were some doubts about their effectiveness at the time. Mazda had just come out with the 2-piece stock seals and there were some doubts about those, too. I didn't want to delay my rebuild, so I sprung for the ceramics since they were a proven (albeit expensive) solution. I am looking forward to seeing how well they work, but I am paying a lot for whatever difference they make. And I know they aren't immune to bad tuning, so I still have to watch out. I did have a nit of chatter with the stock seals, so I am haping they get rid of that. And I am also hopeful that they will offer some boost in torque or power and be a bit more resistant to detonation (heaven forbid that I get any).

-Max

jimlab

True, but if that's their only tangible benefit (long wear), then you'd have to reuse them several times to make it worth the cost.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

At least when stock apex seals go, you don't go "gee, there's $1800 down the toilet" . I also believe that the one broken seal took the other apex seals with it - ouch!

Again, it's just not a good bang for the buck. $1800 is a whole lotta good tires .

Dale

cover8

I think you can stay with stock seals or the Turrentine upgrades and buy water injection with what is left...I am definitely going with WI to get in to the t66 performance potential 20-25psi.

In the single (turbo) forum pianoprodigy's t66 got a whole 410rwhp...no WI, that after review is a total waste of money when for the cost of just the turbo you could have bought stage III's.

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

wow so the price is still $300.00 a piece, amazing it never changed from about 8 years ago...

jimlab

Supply and demand. Or are you saying that it's amazing it hasn't gone up?