EHD in AZ

I bought a 93 R1 in Jan'00 with the motor close to dead. (Of course I did not know that!) In July 2000 I had the motor replaced with a Mazda factory rebuilt. It has the standard 12 months unlimited mile warranty.

In June this year the same symtoms started again, so I knew the engine was going to blow. I told the dealer that the engine runs hot, gets air in the cooling system, and blows steam. They said they don't see a puddle of coolant under the car, so it must be good. Idoits.

I tracked down at a different dealership the mechanic that originally replaced the motor. He did a cooling system pressure test and replaced the radiator cap, declaring it done. I got the car back on the day the 12-month warranty expired. This did not solve the problem. Two weeks later and the problem is so bad that the plugs get wet so the car won't start.

NOW, Mazda says that the warranty has expired so they won't fix it.

Any advice, please? How do I approach this with Mazda? The dealership talked with the Mazda rep directly but won't give me his contact info. I have all documentation.

Icemark

generallly, If your out of warrenty, you are out of warrenty... its SOL

You might get lucky sweet talking to the dealerships service manager, showing him that you brought in the car to have it checked before the warrenty expired, and they blew you off, but its an iffy situation.

Perhaps a bribe...

The regional manager is more than likely gonna say the same thing.

Have you made any mods to the car? if so your really SOL. I would be more concerned with WHY you blew two engines within 16 months...

Hey the car is almost 10 years old... Something else must be wrong causing the blown motors...

ronarndt

You spent several thousand $ to have your rebuilt engine installed and the dealer, true to form, could not diagnose the problem and will not honor the warrantee. You have documentation to show the problem occurred during the warrantee period and that you made a good faith effort to get the problem repaired. One word: lawyer. It will cost you another several thousand $ to get the rebuilt motor replaced if you do not challenge the dealer. Depending what state you are in, you may be able to get your legal fees included in any money judgement that is successful against the dealer. In any case, you will indicate to the dealer that you are not just going to go away or pay them again for the repair. They may cough up for the repair, if they feel is is less costly for them to do so, rather than paying for an unsuccessful legal defense. I would guess that you are in your early to mid 20's- right? Dealers do not take people in this age group seriously, since they know you do not have as much financial leverage as someone older. Your attorney can do all the tough talk and threat of bad publicity for you. As much as I hate lawyers, sometimes you need them.

ronarndt

Follow-up to last post. If you *have* made any engine mods, then you *are* SOL. Dealers will always use this as the reason for why the engine went and sometimes that is the reason. Hope you make out OK.

EHD in AZ

I only wish I was mid-to late 20's. Or 30's.

I'm 44, young at heart but sensible. I drive spiritedly but not hard. I enjoy it but NEVER abuse it. I use it to commute to work and back, 40 miles per day. 8-5 kind of job. Hardly drive it on weekends ... seems to need my truck all the time. Very common to discover on Monday morning that I did not touch the car since parking it on Friday.

I believe it's the Phoenix AZ heat the kills these motors. At 5:30 in the summer driving in modest traffic (35 mins/20 miles), the engine bay seems overly hot.

The car had a few mods when I bought it. PFS cat-back, K&N filter system, turbo-timer. I added nothing other than total repaint and 17" rims. Oh, and I replaced the radiator and of course caps before having the motor replaced.

There is NO reason this engine should have gone in 18k miles. It is pampered compared to what I'm sure some of you dudes do to yours.

Thanks for the advice. I did discus this with the service manager to no avail. I guess legal action is going to be necessary.

EHD in AZ

... follow-up.

I should point out that first the dealers said warrantee is 12-mo 12k miles. They were wrong on that. I asked proof, the brought out the book: 95 or newer cars are subject to 12x12; pre-95 are 12xUnlimited. So they did not know or tried to fool me.

Fact is, I have proof that I brought the car to TWO dealers stating the engine is failing and needs to be replaced BEFORE the warrantee expired.

I'm being screwed for wrong/careless diagnosis.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

EHD in AZ,

I almost went through the same thing. I was told I had an oil leak from the main engine assembly. My engine was a re-man from Mazda as well which is out of warranty. Luckily, the leak turned out to be the oil lines running to the turbos, so not an engine problem.

But, what I had done just in case was call Mazda USA at: 1-800-222-5500. Basically, what they told me was if they could determine that the engine failure was do to a manufactoring problem, then they would evaulate the case and see if they would offer any assistance (this was before I found out exactly where the leak was).

Call Mazda USA. Tell them your situation and have them start a case on it. Have a Mazda dealership determine if the engine needs to be replaced and what caused it. Also have a non-Mazda rotary mechanic do the same. Send the results to Mazda USA and see what they will do for you.

Good luck.

Toadman

I'm guessing you took it to Showcase or Bell Road Mazda in Phoenix. Read your PM, EHD.

RyanC

That sucks! I bet that since you have the previous visits documented you can find a way to get the whole issue resolved. As someone said before, talk to a lawyer. I also live in Phoenix and I can say that the heat here sucks, but it still shouldnt blow your engine every 16 months. Something else might be wrong.

zayrx7

Sorry to hear about your car, have you check to see if your fans are coming on. Check your fuse int the front of the car to see if one is blown.

EHD in AZ

nope, fans are working good, I watched them daily.

This was my summer drill when I get home from work: open the hood, get the mail, greet the dogs and light a smoke while the 3-minutes run out on the turbo timer. Once the car sits idling, the cooling fans come on after about a minute or less. When the turbo-timer kicks off, the fans go off as well. I then turn the ignition on, so the fans come on again (engine off). The fans run about two minutes before shutting down.

Sometimes I'd even mist the radiator from the outside, so the fans suck moist air through the core.

On days when it was 110F+ outside and 140F inside when I leave work, I'd drive home with the AC off to take it easy on the f###ing motor. I'd sweat like a pig on those days.

Remember, the motor never ran hot on the guage. It just seems hot when you open the hood. If I knew it was going to die at 11 months, I would have driven the **** out of it.

ronarndt

Good luck trying to get assistance from Mazda. There must be some dealers who act in a reputable manner with regard to warantee work, but I have not heard of any. I broke an axle on my GTUs a few years ago and the dealer I took it to completely mis-diagnosed the problem and tried to charge me for a complete clutch job. I did get them to agree to not charge for the clutch, if that was not the problem. I ended up paying for some of the work, but found out later that the dealer had submitted the broken axle to Mazda for warrantee credit, so they got paid twice for the same repair, once by me and then by Mazda. Two other people I know have had similar experiences with warrantee work. It seems that the dealers try to convince the customer that the problem must be something else, so they don't have to honor the warrantee. I use the dealer close to where I live as little as possible. Their service department is poorly trained on the 3rd gen and I don't want to let them use my car to learn on.
Sorry you're not in your 20s, (me either, most of the people on this forum could be my grandkids), but I think you know what I'm talking about. There is a certain age discrimination in the car business in sales and in service departments. Young people are considered fair game for deceitful business practices.

EHD in AZ

just received call from MazdaUSA... they spoke w/ region rep ( kelly brown)... still refuse to budge. Here's what they say now:

"Two dealerships tested the car and found it to be working correctly before the warrantee expired". Bullshit! I asked them to put that in writing.

Quoting from the invoice/work order on 7/2/01 at first dealership:
"Customer states vehicle is losing or using coolant - running hot, steam from exhaust - engine replaced last July. Advise."

They simply checked under the car for a puddle of coolant; when they found nothing they said it was not losing coolant so everthing must be fine. They did not drive the car, did not do a combustion compression check or coolant compression check. Goes on to say: "Customer declined futher inspection. Cust does not agree with our diagnosis - will be taking vehicle to another Mazda dealership to parts warranty engine."

At the second dealership, I spoke with the service advisor AND mechanic who did the engine last year for 15 minutes, describing exactly what it does, and my concern that the engine is failing because of the exact same symptoms it had 11.5 months ago. They translated that 15 minute conversation to this, on the invoice/work order on 7/16/01: "Pressure test cooling system per customer request".

That's not what I requested, but that's what they put on the invoice. You know how it goes, you don't see the invoice until you pick up the car. With a known pending engine failure, I did not simply say "boys, just check the radiator cap to make sure all is OK." NFW! They knew full-well that I told them the engine is failing. After three days, on the day the warranty expired on 7/19/01, their conclusion stated on the invoice was this:

"Pressure tested sys and found rad cap leaking down but no other leaks at this time. Replaced rad cap and test drove all working to factory specs at this time."

They fxxked up by not diagnosing correctly and they are not willing to accept responsibility. Look for this car for sale on this board when all is done. This was my sixth and last Mazda. No more.

Thanks everyone for the private messages and phone calls. Here comes the lawyers.

-------
Cheers & peace,
Edwin

G 's 3rd gen

This is yet another case of MAZDUH ******* people! Sorry to hear it Ed. Lucky they only got me for $200 before I found Pettit a few years back!!

RX794

I CAN"T BELIEVE THE ******** THE DEALERSHIP and the REGIONAL SVCE. REP. IS!!
I used to be a Service Mgr. at a Mazda dealer in NY, this type of behavior is UNACCEPTABLE! I've been in similar cases like this when I used to work with Mazda in the past, and I have never had a problem like this, especially with a genuine Mazda part, installed by the dealership! In the past all I did was call my regional svce. rep., tell him the situation, especially explain to him that we(the dealership) had f...ed up, and/or misdiagnosed or misunderstood the customer's request and/or problem, and now realize that there was a mistake in our part, the service rep. would usually just ask for documents and just warranty the job, or if it was a questionable case, he would at least cover the parts cost and half of the labor(which in some cases is resonable), but to get a blatant NO just like that, with no recourse is absolutely ridiculous. At my dealership I cared about customer service and loyalty, it seems that not everyone thinks that way. Dealerships and automotive companies spend millions of dollars every year giving seminars and classes about how important customer service is, basically they are teaching everyone that a loyal customer is worth more than anything else in the long run of business. By looking at how these dealerships and regional reps. are behaving it seems like Mazda is FAILING themselves and more important FAILING their CUSTOMERS. The answer that "we cannot help you", is the WRONG answer!, Mazda gives millions of goodwill dollars every year that goes to help dealerships and customers in situations just like this one, the person responsible for giving that money where seen fit, is up to the regional service rep. But I must note that the dealership MUST be willing to say what he/she has to, to get help from the service rep., they simply can't say "well this guy came in and he's out of warranty, and he wants Mazda to cover it", NO!, He MUST EXPLAIN the entire situation and be WILLING to want to HELP the customer! If not, the rep. will not be WILLING to HELP the customer! My only advice to you is KEEP CALLING MAZDA, until you get someone that WANTS to help you, don't give up and be persistant! If with all this information nothing happens, THEN you take legal action. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience like this, I hope things turn out for the best.

Tim McCreary

You know what amazes me. If the regionals or the dealers would just take a look at some of these threads, just like this one, they would realize how much lack of CUSTOMER FOCUS they have.

I work for Appleton Papers where we make carbonless paper. We own about 60% of the market shares. We charge a slightly higher price than the competition also. BUT we have a guarantee. If the paper does not perform to your satisfaction, we fix it or replace it. NO STRINGS!! Mead is the next biggest competitor and their warranty takes days, even weeks to resolve. They also want to blame you for the failure.

I heard of a story where there was a claim against our paper, and we paid it. We followed up with the customer and found that the paper was not the problem, but their printing press and techniques were not right. We didn't go crying and saying we want our money. We told the customer how to do it better and why. We even went and helped them set up and run their machine. They found out that running our paper with the correct setup yielded less downtime and more production, as well as a better printed product for their customers. We WOWED the customer.

Guess what, they are a customer for LIFE!!!! How would you feel if Mazda would WOW us. How many of you would pay a little more (5-8%) and know that if there was a problem, it would be taken care of immediately, whether it was your fault or not. Woudn't it be great to buy a REMAN engine for $2200 and have total support during the life of the engine. If there was a failure during the warranty period, not only would they put a new engine in NO QUESTIONS ASKED, but determine what caused the failure in the first place and explain it to you so the mistake was not made again. You wouldn't mind paying the extra money to have the dealer install it then.

With the number of cars sold each day, how much extra revenue would be generated. This extra revenue is what drives and pays for the TOTAL CUSTOMER FOCUS. I know if a car company treated me that way, I would go back and buy again and again.

Ah, but alas, MAZDA continues with their process instead of hiring someone like people from KD Rotary as technical advisors.


Tim McCreary

RX-7 GT

instead of signing and sending the "save the 7" thing we should send a bunch of stories and complaints and a bunch of threads of countless BS! these companies are billion dollar companies and they cant even help out a fellow rotor head. there like a rich guy that tips 1 dollar. fawk!

why not send some **** to them VIA FAX! flood thier damn system with paper and emails and calls constanly for 1month

djantlive

Sue their asses and they'll shape up. These people obviously don't know jack *** about our cars and have nothing to offer in service. Most car dealers are vastly incompetent and ********. I can't believe they are in business.

Mazda corporate better shape up their act in training and enforcing their dealer chains soon. Otherwise, they will have a **** load of problems when the RX8 and new 626 are launched.