lzamboni

iTrader: (8)

For what I understand, if you get tuned and install WI later, as far as it is WATER injection only and not Meth, you dont need to tune again since the water doesnt combust, it only cools down the combustion chambers temperatures. Just make sure you dont spray too much.
As for running out of water, if you didnt go crazy and made big ignition advances or crazy boost increases, you should be good. But if you did, it dependes on how much you did and if it is out of the realm that can be safely handled by a normal non AI engine. Most of the time that people use the water alone is for safety and reliability so they dont change the ignition or boost much.
Of course most new and specially the High End AI systems come with lots of safeties for cases like that.

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

Wow thank you. I guess I'll be doing this very soon.

eschumac

I've seen a few threads in the AI forum on adding water to the stock setup, but maybe we need a good sticky there where we can discuss best "entry level" setups? I'm interested in giving it a whirl. Should we do it in this thread or create one or more in the AI forum?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

If you tune the car and add water later the afr's wouldn't change much, power will remain mostly the same. Some have claimed a decrease in power without tuning for the water, and others have claimed an increase in power. My thoughts are it probably won't change much and the added reliability is worth it. If you run out of water, nothing bad will happen.

If you tune up for water.... either by running more boost, and/or leaner AFR's/more timing, what will happen? Well, that depends on how far you push things. If you're running 30 psi and 12:1 afrs with a high advance you will probably blow the engine the same second you run out of water. On the other hand if you tune for say 20 psi and maintain conservative afr's and timing you're engine will "probably" last long enough for you to realize you need more water.

There are several on the board that regularly run 20 psi on just pump fuel, despite the general idea not to exceed 15 psi. So the odds of blowing up the one time you do it without water is probably fairly low. But the rest of the system needs to be adequate. Fuel system, intercooler, tuning etc.

But most WI systems include a low level light at the very least. If you don't trust your WI system, then it's probably best not to go too wild with tuning.

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

I like the idea of the engine getting steam cleaned the most everytime I boost hard. I think I'm hooked on the idea.

I also found this thread in the AI thread (which I now know stands for Aux. Injection and not alky injection).

https://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/stock-twins-reliable-300-hp-weekend-warrior-ai-lots-nooby-questions-813063/

wolf_9782

oh wow, not having to re-tune the car with a water injection system is very good news for me. as of right now im going to dump this years income tax return on the aquamist kit thanks for the information! saved me some money.

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

WOOOO hurray for no premix!!! I didnt even think about that. Im guessing by "right" washer fluid you mean something that will evaporate and not leave a trace? I was thinking about going for a separate distilled water tank but that sounds even better.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

You have to make sure the washerfluid is made from alcohol and doesn't have other additives. I forgot what they were as well, but the engine doesn't like them. If you don't live in a colder state and freezing isn't an issue just use distilled water.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Now, I'm confused. My understanding is that even if you're running any form of AI, you still need to do something (pre-mix, engine-oil or two-cycle oil via the OMP) so the apex seals don't get ruined.

neil

lzamboni

iTrader: (8)

You are right M104-AMG, pre-mix or 2 cycle oil thru the OMP or the stock engine oil way has to be done always. It has nothing to do with AI. They are 2 separate things.

xzl6b1

iTrader: (7)

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

here is an alternate to aquamist etc .
I posted on the ai thread as well.
I may contact rbracing for a water only system for my single turbo fd.
Interested in comments from others

Monkman33

iTrader: (28)

So their pump is supposedly more reliable? But would it work with an HD ai setup?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

anyone interested in AI, especially water is invited to read thru alot of great info on the site mentioned in post 169. a recommended read. i have no experience w their water system which is primarily aimed at motorcycles. do check out the site.

as to the Aquamist system that references injector duty cycle. it is an excellent method however due to the FD not having a voltage related total (primary and secondary) duty cycle AQ is having to build a "summing" device to add the two together. whether it is complete i don't know. AQ and Chief Eng Richard Lamb are highly respected as both pioneers (water injection for the World Rally Cars) and for offering a wide array of high quality AI options. AQ has one of the two best Forums too.

as to a thread for entry level AI... that's fine but it would probably be shuttled to the AI Section. i really would like to move some of the focus in this thread in that direction. (thanks Gordon).

hc

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I also think their pump at 230psi and about 400cc/min is enough for water-only AI on a stock twin-turbo setup.

Anyone else ?

:-) neil

Ehron

iTrader: (1)

The text in the above cited RSR link states:
Any idea why they would say that?

lzamboni

iTrader: (8)

Thats for people thinking about doing AI before the intercooler. The most common way is after the intercooler right before the Throttle Body but some people do place 1 nozzle pre-intercooler or pre-turbo.
One of the possible problems that it could create is that the water since it doesnt evaporate by the time it gets inside the intercooler and being heavier than the air could get deposited at the bottom of the intercooler and stay there.
I dont know if that is what they are stating in that text since I havent read it yet but this is what I have read before.
Leo

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Howard, I am very interested in this. Do you know when you would know if you will be doing this? The FJO kit is almost out so I will be ordering it soon and when I get it I would like to get right on installing it. If I can expect a kit like that, I would wait for it instead of trying to make a custom tank in the spare tire bin. This thread makes me so excited

thewird

aoc007

iTrader: (5)

I'm interested in a meth/gas fuel cell replacement for the stock tank kit.

zenofspeed

iTrader: (1)

The math seems to indicate it would provide enough water/meth for anything at or below 450hp, then you start reaching the pump limitations. The low Amp draw of that pump is very attractive. Only 2 AMPS!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"I'm interested in a meth/gas fuel cell replacement for the stock tank kit."

"I am very interested in this. Do you know when you would know if you will be doing this? The FJO kit is almost out so I will be ordering it soon and when I get it I would like to get right on installing it. If I can expect a kit like that, I would wait for it instead of trying to make a custom tank in the spare tire bin."

"I'm interested in the dual fuel cell as well. I went the same route as the pic above as far as removing the stock tank and deck. I'll be needing a setup with enough capacity for driving moderate distances without having to refuel. What size dual fuel cell would fit with it mounted under the carpeted area?"

let's call it a dual cell or DC i will get back to all on this by friday.

hc

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

Howard, do you think I should get a 4 bar map sensor for my setup or will I be able to get reference from the built in 48 psi map sensor? Should I buy a separate map sensor to give my PFC reference or would tapping in the the FJO sensor be appropriate? I should be ordering my kit in 2 more weeks. There's a couple other things to be purchased and finished first...

efiniste

It is complete, Howard. A couple of us on here helped with testing etc to get it working correctly. I've been running it on my car for almost a year now.

Steve

lzamboni

iTrader: (8)

Yes I have it in my car now too. It is running fine on the dyno tests the shop is doing so far.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

let's hear more from all running the AQ summing AI system. for those that don't know, the AQ system is designed to provide a track off the injector duty cycle. you then parallel your base fuel map w AI delivery to whatever extent you wish.

this is another way of providing HD AI delivery.

so Izamboni & efineste.... how is it working? let's hear some feedback.

also, AQ, is the system currently available for sale?

hc

thewird

iTrader: (8)

So any update on the dual cell . Also, any update on FJO kits, supposed to be out 2 days ago

thewird