Cetchup

Ok boys and girls, I have been informed that my FD is in need of a rebuild. I have talked to a few guys on the forum about where to go and things like that, now I just need to know how to build myself a rock solid reliable FD. I have 82,000 on original engine and turbos. My plans are kinda going in this direction:

1) Rebuilt engine (the most reliable rebuild is what I'm looking for...I dont need an 11 sec rocket right now)
2) Silicone hose mod
3) Used set of 99+ turbos (dont know how much longer my stockers will hold up)
4) PFC
5) Fluidyne Radiator
6) Pettit AST
7) 3" SS DP
8) 3" CB
9) Water temp gauge
10) Boost gauge (I dont want to have to check that tiny commander for my boost pattern)
11) Fan mod
12) Maybe a vented hood (that much of a noticeable temp difference?)
13) Blitz SBC-ID (gotta keep boost down untill I get an IC)
14) Hawk pads/Brembo slotted/dimpled rotors all around
15) Crooked Willow oil cooler upgrade

I have been on this forum for a while and am pretty schooled in the area of reliability for an FD. However, this is my first rebuild and I am taking NO chances here. All the extreme mods can be done down the road (porting, upgraded turbos, injectors etc..) but right now I need something that wont blow up on me. What am I missing? Does anyone have info on cermaic coating? Any certain areas I should look into getting ceramic coated? Thanks guys.

- Danny

fdracer

i'd rather get it ported right now rather than get the 99 turbos. it's already gonna be taken apart so porting should only be around $300 for the engine and $200 to match port the intake manifold. just get a used set of turbos in good condition.

maxpesce

Danny Get a MILD streetport (no or minimal increase in overlap) with the rebuild the engine has to come apart to be ported!
I would go w/ spooledup7's AST - It is by far the best built ast I have seen. and he is setting up to do a new run of them as soon as he gets 10 firm orders
Unless your Oil cooler(s) is(are) badly beat up I think I would go for a Greddy SMIC before the Dual Oil Cooler Upgrade, If you have only 1 cooler do just a single add on cooler.
The 99 turbos will want to breath through an "Efini" "Y" pipe.
Do The AIRBOX Mod and add a K&N filter. (check my web site [in sig]) or search is an active thread by adamC

mjw

iTrader: (1)

I'd say that list sounds pretty solid, I'm not sure the CWC oil coolers are necessary for a street car though.. and they are big bucks as well. I'd love to do an oil cooler upgrade someday, but I am pretty sure I would fab up something myself and save a ton of money.

Matt

LAracer

If your goal is really to make a bulletproof car, then you may want to go with Viton hoses instead of silicone.

artguy

hey....

get the motor ported while it is out...tis too cheap and easy to do now and will not affect your reliability at all. it will be the best 300 bucks you spend on that car of yours since you are doing the ecu as part of your package. it will wake your car up.

used turbos will cause you more grief than it is worth...anyone selling used turbos are selling them for a reason. I looked at four different sets from forum members and every one of them promised that they did not leak...of course a finger deep in the snails produced oil residue which showed they did in fact leak.

you could possibly get them rebuilt thru bnr...or rotary reliability and racing who has a great builder...bnr is more affordable I think.


get your apex seals upgraded..everyone seems pretty solid on the hurley set...Im happy with the ianetti 3mm ceramics but they are pricey.


thats about it...


j

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Here's my .02,

If you aren't wanting an 11sec car, just get a reman (probably a cheaper route as well). However, if you do want something ported, do the rebuild and get it ported now. It will cost more to do it later.

I also agree with the others about oil coolers, but I would add in a hi-flo cat. I would also skip the 99 turbos and just have your current turbos rebuilt by BNR.

If you want to polish anything, this would be a good time to do it.

RonKMiller

Put the new 240 hp Honda engine in it with a Jackson Supercharger.

Just don't tell anyone.

fdracer

oh, send out your injectors to rc to get cleaned and blueprinted. i'd have to disagree w/ you on the turbo thing artguy. i've seen many a rebuilt turbo smoke and leak oil, so there's still no guarantee he'll get a perfect set. remember the cores that those are based upon are usually peices of ****. there's less risk involved w/ a used set and it can be had for half the cost of a rebuilt. i do agree he needs to physically inspect the turbos before he buys them.

Trexthe3rd

Do you ever have anything positive to contribute to anyone in this community?


In addition to what others have mentioned, do a complete overhaul of your cooling system while the engine is out. Replace ALL coolant hoses. It would also be a good time to upgrade your fuel system to support future mods. That would include larger injectors, better fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator.
Both will go a long way in preventing future engine failiurs.

Cetchup

Ok, so scartch the Oil coolers and maybe go for a mild streetport. I have the pettit ast already along with the fluidyne so thats why I put it on there.

With a streetport, am I defintely going to need new injectors? I have a walboro 255 pump right now that I can use untill I get enough money for a supra TT pump. I don't want to have to spend a lot of money on this to accomodate the port right now. So if I do infact get the streetport while my engine is being rebuilt, what would I automatically need to go with it? I am for sure getting the PFC and like I said I have a fuel pump already, along with intake,dp and cb. What size injectors should I be running? (primary and secondary) Is there anything else I need to know before getting the rebuild? Thanks.

Trexthe3rd

If you have a programmable ecu then get the 1600 for the secondary, leave the primary alone.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

All that, and everything else listed means absolutely nothing unless you have someone knowledgeable to tune the complete system - unless you are good at tuning yourself.

johnchabin

iTrader: (2)

Good idea. An excellent time for Evans NPG+ coolant while the system is completely drained (if you like the product).

777rx777

Danny you want reliable? Keep it "STOCK DU"

Snook

iTrader: (12)

I'd say that the port actually adds reliability cause without it your car can't breathe it's always choking

arent 1600s huge? I think 1300s are plenty for the stock twin turbos

dude a coupel things I kicked myself in the *** for not doing with the rebuild

have the wastegate ported if you are ever gonna run a midpipe
so have the wastegate ported

All the fluids and filters changed!

have stuff polished and engine bay painted all that....

btw I dont think you need a radiator till your end caps break but it will be simple to get to while the engine is out so it's up to you

do it right man and you'll be sooo happy

black99

(This is all my opinion)

I think you're list looks good.

Make sure you get new injector o-rings, and a new FPD(fuel pulsation dampner) if it hasn't been replaced yet. You might also consider a new thermostat and waterpump if you really want it to be bulletproof.

Definately save the crooked willows for later down the road, and the porting or not is up to you. If you end up wanting a 11 sec rocket later you can always do it without porting although porting makes it a little easier. As for the 99 spec turbos, I'm not going to tell you no but as Mahjik suggested maybe look into getting yours upgraded by BNR, as I've heard no complaints yet about their rebuilds and they are the lowest priced rebuilds/upgrades I've seen. 1k on used turbos you don't know exactly how many miles/condition vs. 1k on rebuilt by a reputable shop, I think I know which one I'd rather spend the money on myself.

I think alot of people are getting carried away with the 1600cc injectors, next it will be you need a fuel rail for the injectors, etc and since you only want it reliable, not haul *** fast on high boost right now I'm not sure if you really "need" all that.. Is it nice to have for later? yes but sometimes the money is better spent elsewhere. And it's not like you have to open the motor to replace injectors. Good idea on the fuel pump though.

And a intercooler wouldn't be bad if you had the $$$ to spare.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Leaking turbos.... Well I don't agree. ALL TURBOS will put some oil in the intake tract. I've seen it on everyone of the 14 turbo'd rotaries I've owned, mileage ranged from 19K to 123K. A finger in the snail will just tell you it's normal. The stock turbos are actually pretty reliable, it's the boost control system that isn't great.

Another thing with people advertising used turbos, "no shaft play" is absolute BS. You've GOT to have some shaft play. The shaft play is where the pressureized (sp) goes. No shaft play=no where for the oil to go.

Upgraded apex seals... 3mm seals are not an upgrade, they are a way to save the rotors after they've worn past 2mm spec. Ianetti seals are for different applications, high boost, etc.

Jeff

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Yeah take a look at the latest R&T or Car and Driver. That motor isn't all that hot. No pull below 6K rpm, lots of shifting and it still can't always be kept on full boil... 0-60 depends greatly on the road conditions, more so than any compareable hp motor.

Jeff

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Porting is NOT a reliability mod.

Porting the wastegate isn't needed unless your running lots of boost/midpipe. Again not a reliability mod.

Radiator IS a reliability mod. FD rads are smaller than TII rads, add some age and dirt guess which one is worse. TIIs have no problem running over 100K miles with much smaller ports and a wastegate the size of your pinky.

PFC is not a reliability mod, stock ECU will be VERY rich at 10psi or less. Do a search for Wade's research in this area. My car is a test subject, 3.5 mods, less than 10:1 a/f ratio.

This thread had TONS of bad advice. It also has some good advice, impossible for most surfers to distinguish between the two.

Jeff

ArchangelX

turbojeff

artguy

pfc is a reliability mod if you want to run more than stock boost or have a streetport. you can set cooling fan temperature start times which in my case lowered my normal operating temps from 95-89 degrees (hello reliability!!!) and can adjust fuel exactly to your modifications and insure proper afrs throughout the power band (hello reliability)...you can somewhat monitor knock (hello reliability)...you get an additional set of instruments in the commander to compare numbers to (hello reliability)...etc...etc...

if he streetports the car it will need a pfc...

take that and put it in your dirty diaper...

haha

btw...stock turbos are not as you say "reliable"...they put out huge heat due to their shaft bearing design and small wheels and also are nearly impossible to rebuild properly (what are there like two shops pulling it off nowadays?) sure the control system has problems...but so do the turbos.

btw...if you saw the amount of oil in the turbos I looked at you would not say that it was "normal". I even got second opinions from Rotary Reliability and Racing..."these turbos leak!" they said. They have been building rx-7s for over 20 years. I second guessed myself but I trust their judgement.

in my case and in the case that catchup is going for the seals are an upgrade...I know the debate rages...but he was discussing the m2 set previously...if he wants to run high boost he will need the ianettis...and or the hurleys...he will need the set "upgraded" to the mods he is planning to do.

but alas...i do agree that all turbos have some shaft play...but you can look for abnormal shaft play...there will be some...enough to notice...but if one has a LOT and another has none you probably shouldnt get that set

jeff..you badger people for bad advice...but yours too was limited and one sided. everyone on here...including me...should be heard but not followed like law..its all just opinions right? and getting opinions leads to research which leads to finding proper information.


j

ArchangelX

On that note...just from my own thinking...

The reliability of a turbo should have nothing to do with how easily you can rebuild it. As for the stock turbos being reliable, for a stock car pushing normal boost within it's designed capabilities, from most of my research in the past few days, they're quite reliable.

The turbos currently in my stock RX-7 have been pushing quite strongly for 97,000 miles and still have a bit of life left in them. And that's with NONE of the reliability mods completed. It all depends on what you do with the car, and I assume the car had been raced quite a bit actually.

Excessive oil in the turbos would be a sign of a leak, but simply finding oil residue would not, plus the fact that if it were me, I'd be looking for NO shaft play in a set of used turbos if I used the information provided. And I'd most definetly find some play, and that might have prevented me from ever find a decent set of turbos if I was looking for them.

So in a way, Jeff is right on the money with his observations. I think his post was pretty much an exact opposite or counterpoint to the other advice presented here.

Take them both together, and you've got a pretty informative thread. Discussion like this is what leads to positive results for all involved.

Good stuff...

redrotorR1

Danny,

I would drop the vented hood and add in either the M2 medium SMIC or the Greddy SMIC. I noticed you didn't mention anything about an intake ... already got one, I 'm guessing? If not, CAI kit ... M2's generally regarded as the best. (Worth the money, IMO.) Fuel pump DEFINITELY should be upgraded. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator is not a bad idea, if you plan on opening up the exhaust and are still considering the streetport. You don't have to spend all that money on the SBC-iD; you could save some and get the Blitz DSBC or the Greddy Profec B. Unless you're building up a road racing vehicle, there's no need for the Brembo kits. The stock brakes are very good, as is ... just stick with the Hawk HP+'s. (Dusting issue, but not that bad.) And if you are building up a road race vehicle, there's some more stuff that needs to be added to that list!!

It's the same ol' song and dance with used turbos ... you never really know what you're going to get. Why take the risk? Just buckle down, grab your ankles, and get the brand new ones. And while you're in there, replace all the oil and coolant lines to the turbo. Anyhow, good luck.

Don

wptrx7

i know you might not be looking for high hp at the moment but what might actually help would be to go single. the t04e is the best canidate from rx7store.net . it will save on some of the heat caused by the twins and the stock dp. this may not be the route your heading in or it maybe but just keep in mind it is cheaper to spend some of the money now because everything is out then it is to pull stuff out again and add on to it.

the best chance you have in completing your goal is know what you want. plan out fully (know your last step or final goal). or you'll end up spending even more money anyway you cut it.

i have more time and less need for my car at the moment, so i read through these threads and gather as much info. besides that i do a lot of searching especially if something new comes up in discussion. what you might want to do is start removing parts off the car to find if any stock (necessary stock) parts need to be replaced before you start spending money on aftermarket parts. i would hate to start spending money on goodies and find out you have to stop and fix bs. my take on this...

luigi