m2 upgrade
11-18-02, 12:19 AM
#101
Ghost Ride the Whip
OK.....all been said.....WHERE THE HELL DO YOU BUY THESE M2 THINGS ???
11-19-02, 02:25 PM
#103
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Just thought I would throw this out, I saw on the SR Mototsports site that they are having a garage sale and one item is a set of 1999 Efini turbos, sale price $2599
they claim a savings of $1100 over list. If they do sell for $3699 new it sure makes the M2s sound like a good deal even at there new price of $3295 + core.
they claim a savings of $1100 over list. If they do sell for $3699 new it sure makes the M2s sound like a good deal even at there new price of $3295 + core.
11-19-02, 03:21 PM
#104
Originally posted by capt. bill1
Just thought I would throw this out, I saw on the SR Mototsports site that they are having a garage sale and one item is a set of 1999 Efini turbos, sale price $2599
they claim a savings of $1100 over list. If they do sell for $3699 new it sure makes the M2s sound like a good deal even at there new price of $3295 + core.
Just thought I would throw this out, I saw on the SR Mototsports site that they are having a garage sale and one item is a set of 1999 Efini turbos, sale price $2599
they claim a savings of $1100 over list. If they do sell for $3699 new it sure makes the M2s sound like a good deal even at there new price of $3295 + core.
They have the greatest markup on prices I have ever seen.
11-19-02, 07:06 PM
#106
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Going to the dyno this week!
Got back in town and low and behold they have opened up a first class dyno in town. They can print out everything I need to know. First a new baseline
then on goes the Power FC and in go the 1300 injectors.
While I was there I guy I know who has some work done at the same shop as I do but built a lot of te cr himself was just getting ready to run his TII.
At the time I left the shop he was at 446 RWHP, 380 TQ, 520 flywheel HP at 18 lb of boost.
He was going to do some runs at 20 lb of boost I believe.
Real nice numbers but no power till after 4500 rpm.
It was pretty funny, the guy who owns the dyno doesn't know rotaries very well and thought he was full of it when he told them he would be making well over 400 RWHP.
By the time I left they were suitably impressed.
I will have to look for jaw prints on the floor when I go back as a result of the 20 LB runs. :-)
Got back in town and low and behold they have opened up a first class dyno in town. They can print out everything I need to know. First a new baseline
then on goes the Power FC and in go the 1300 injectors.
While I was there I guy I know who has some work done at the same shop as I do but built a lot of te cr himself was just getting ready to run his TII.
At the time I left the shop he was at 446 RWHP, 380 TQ, 520 flywheel HP at 18 lb of boost.
He was going to do some runs at 20 lb of boost I believe.
Real nice numbers but no power till after 4500 rpm.
It was pretty funny, the guy who owns the dyno doesn't know rotaries very well and thought he was full of it when he told them he would be making well over 400 RWHP.
By the time I left they were suitably impressed.
I will have to look for jaw prints on the floor when I go back as a result of the 20 LB runs. :-)
11-19-02, 09:07 PM
#107
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bill you best pick up that 3bar map sensor from gm too...that way we can get a good run out of you...18lbs...right?
lets see what ya do...is there anything else you are missing?
j
lets see what ya do...is there anything else you are missing?
j
11-20-02, 02:51 AM
#109
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here is the 3bar info you will need...I was digging around a while back and got some good answers from the single turbo guys.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=115484
you may be ok on fuel...feel it out...watch the numbers...Im at about 65 percent duty cycle running 15lbs so there is plenty of room yet.
what fuel pump do you have?
j
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=115484
you may be ok on fuel...feel it out...watch the numbers...Im at about 65 percent duty cycle running 15lbs so there is plenty of room yet.
what fuel pump do you have?
j
Last edited by artguy; 11-20-02 at 02:54 AM.
11-20-02, 06:06 PM
#111
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i think so...
is the rp the cosmo pump?
either way...just keep an eye out for high inj duty cycles over 85 percent...nothing over...keep your afrs 11.2-11.5 all the way through...with leaner at vacuum and maybe slightly richer up top...
take it SLOW..and PATIENT. yer dealing with a lot of boost and a lot of powah!
good luck bill
j
is the rp the cosmo pump?
either way...just keep an eye out for high inj duty cycles over 85 percent...nothing over...keep your afrs 11.2-11.5 all the way through...with leaner at vacuum and maybe slightly richer up top...
take it SLOW..and PATIENT. yer dealing with a lot of boost and a lot of powah!
good luck bill
j
11-27-02, 04:30 PM
#112
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Well, dynoed at 286 rwhp at 15 lb boost. A/F was still a bit rich with the M2 chip. Can't figure out why I don,t make more HP? Any ideas?
Got my Power FC yesterday but still need a 3BAR MAP sensor to run more boost.
But with my A/Fs being fine with the M2 at 15 LB can't see how the FC will do much at 15 LB of boost.
Got my Power FC yesterday but still need a 3BAR MAP sensor to run more boost.
But with my A/Fs being fine with the M2 at 15 LB can't see how the FC will do much at 15 LB of boost.
11-27-02, 09:22 PM
#115
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Yeah, the guy earlier who has the M2s (??) dynoed at 358 rwhp with stock ports and a HF cat at the same psi - so with a midpipe you're about 80-85 rwhp short of him with almost the same mods...hmmm..no boost leak, no ignition problems - you could stasrt with the PFC and some wideband tuning but the M2 Ecu shouldn't be too far off, although I'm sure the M2 turbos are tougher to tune for on the remapped ecu. Is your entire boost system working correctly? Coulld always try poorman's non-seq to see.
11-27-02, 10:56 PM
#116
Hey Bill, maybe your M2 ecu is also programed for certain levels of saftey.
It probably wont let you increase the hp. You currently have less rwhp that a regular m2 stage 3 setup will have, and you have more mods. I wish I could help. Could it be that knock sensor? I remember you had a problem with that before. Is your engine compression ok? If you are showing full boost, could you still possibly have a boost leak somewear? (bad y-pipe,solinoids, ect)
It probably wont let you increase the hp. You currently have less rwhp that a regular m2 stage 3 setup will have, and you have more mods. I wish I could help. Could it be that knock sensor? I remember you had a problem with that before. Is your engine compression ok? If you are showing full boost, could you still possibly have a boost leak somewear? (bad y-pipe,solinoids, ect)
11-27-02, 11:49 PM
#118
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glassman...you crack me up
bill is having probs with his car...are you in the single turbo area harassing the guys getting 310 out of a to4s cuz they are having problems with their cars?
i didnt think so.
greg pulled down 358 on stock motor and hi flow...a midpipe and streetport would put him where you are suggesting... at the very LEAST 380 plus right?....and at 15lbs of boost.
when your clunker posts numbers like that (358) at 15lbs then you can talk...you run stock turbos right? lets see you do it..yer stock motor right? well by your logic you should be able to do it. hahahah yeah right. stock turbos..stock motor..what you gonna put down 375? nope....358? nope.
Im going to call you doubting thomas from now on...greg showed you the dyno sheets for his car and you still dont believe. the numbers are there.
greg ups the boost to the efficiency range...and he will be where you want to see too. m2 claims at least 400 hp at 18-20lbs of boost. that is all..they claim low end.
these turbos delivered for me. I know what they did for my car drivability wise..that is all that matters.
those turbos are runnin safe at 15lbs. your stockers would be in melt down if you drove it like that daily.
plus..his power is further down low..where yours is not.
go single already...enjoy your laggy low end. have fun driving around scottsdale with that setup. even if you do go single..the m2setup would eat you up around town.
lets see your dyno sheets glassman...lets see where your machine is at.
when you try to get your car over 400 you will see what we all are going thru...even max on a single is at what 386 or something? he has one of the better setups out there and he has issues with his setup...same will go for you..whether you go single or twin. tis the nature of the beast.
jason
bill is having probs with his car...are you in the single turbo area harassing the guys getting 310 out of a to4s cuz they are having problems with their cars?
i didnt think so.
greg pulled down 358 on stock motor and hi flow...a midpipe and streetport would put him where you are suggesting... at the very LEAST 380 plus right?....and at 15lbs of boost.
when your clunker posts numbers like that (358) at 15lbs then you can talk...you run stock turbos right? lets see you do it..yer stock motor right? well by your logic you should be able to do it. hahahah yeah right. stock turbos..stock motor..what you gonna put down 375? nope....358? nope.
Im going to call you doubting thomas from now on...greg showed you the dyno sheets for his car and you still dont believe. the numbers are there.
greg ups the boost to the efficiency range...and he will be where you want to see too. m2 claims at least 400 hp at 18-20lbs of boost. that is all..they claim low end.
these turbos delivered for me. I know what they did for my car drivability wise..that is all that matters.
those turbos are runnin safe at 15lbs. your stockers would be in melt down if you drove it like that daily.
plus..his power is further down low..where yours is not.
go single already...enjoy your laggy low end. have fun driving around scottsdale with that setup. even if you do go single..the m2setup would eat you up around town.
lets see your dyno sheets glassman...lets see where your machine is at.
when you try to get your car over 400 you will see what we all are going thru...even max on a single is at what 386 or something? he has one of the better setups out there and he has issues with his setup...same will go for you..whether you go single or twin. tis the nature of the beast.
jason
Last edited by artguy; 11-28-02 at 12:02 AM.
12-02-02, 02:38 PM
#119
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OK, after looking over my A/F #s again I'd say it's still way to rich. It gets very rich at the change over point (10.4) and then goes down to 10.88 as the HP/boost builds. And that's at 15 lb of boost so it appears that this M2 chip is set very rich. I'm putting in the power FC and 1300 injectors next week. Then back on the dyno.
I can't see how I could have a boost problem or an ignition problem as the boost builds right up and holds steady at 15 LB and the HP curve seems smooth.
The curve does drop off sharply at 282 hp as the A/F drops to 10.16
What's a safe A/F # to shoot for at 15 LB of boost, 11.6,11.8, lower, higher ?
With everybody talking about how the single verses twin cars feel on the street I dug up some old info I got from another thread called "What do you consider streetable???"
It has some very interresting dyno #s and simulated 1/4 mile, 0-60' and 0-60mph times for stock twins, T78, T04E, T04S and a 350 rwhp twins.
Stock T78 T04E T04S 350Twins
Max RWHP 210 410 365 460 350
The 1/4 mile times are as follows:
Stock T78 T04E T04S 350rwhp twin
13.6 11.6 11.7 11.3 11.6
98mph 127 123 129 122
stock T78 T04E T04S 350 twin
0-60' 1.97 1.85 1.72 1.7 1.6
0-60mph 5.02 3.40 3.36 3.18 3.15 sec.
If these numbers are close to correct it seems to bear out why the high HP twin set ups seem so quick on the street.
It's because they are!
I can't see how I could have a boost problem or an ignition problem as the boost builds right up and holds steady at 15 LB and the HP curve seems smooth.
The curve does drop off sharply at 282 hp as the A/F drops to 10.16
What's a safe A/F # to shoot for at 15 LB of boost, 11.6,11.8, lower, higher ?
With everybody talking about how the single verses twin cars feel on the street I dug up some old info I got from another thread called "What do you consider streetable???"
It has some very interresting dyno #s and simulated 1/4 mile, 0-60' and 0-60mph times for stock twins, T78, T04E, T04S and a 350 rwhp twins.
Stock T78 T04E T04S 350Twins
Max RWHP 210 410 365 460 350
The 1/4 mile times are as follows:
Stock T78 T04E T04S 350rwhp twin
13.6 11.6 11.7 11.3 11.6
98mph 127 123 129 122
stock T78 T04E T04S 350 twin
0-60' 1.97 1.85 1.72 1.7 1.6
0-60mph 5.02 3.40 3.36 3.18 3.15 sec.
If these numbers are close to correct it seems to bear out why the high HP twin set ups seem so quick on the street.
It's because they are!
12-02-02, 04:59 PM
#120
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shoot for mid elevens all the way thru... 11.2-11.5 is the safest area to be....Im richer than that "10.8" over 7000 rpms.
I will be doing another round of fine tuning to balance that out as soon as I am done with the latest batch of mods (coilovers..silencer/midpipe...j&s knock sensor...pully kit...maz comp radiator FINALLY...short shifter...torque brace...toe and trailing etc...) lots to do.
should have it ready to tune in about three weeks...CANT WAIT.
j
I will be doing another round of fine tuning to balance that out as soon as I am done with the latest batch of mods (coilovers..silencer/midpipe...j&s knock sensor...pully kit...maz comp radiator FINALLY...short shifter...torque brace...toe and trailing etc...) lots to do.
should have it ready to tune in about three weeks...CANT WAIT.
j
12-02-02, 09:33 PM
#121
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hahahah yeah right. stock turbos..stock motor..what you gonna put down 375? nope....358? nope.
On another note, despite numerous requests, I have yet to see compressor maps for the stock hitachis in our cars. It would be interesting to see where they really do become inefficient (compressor wise, not bearings and seals coming apart). I'll hazard a guess and say that they would probably do 380rwhp before they choked. But since you probably need some careful balancing and better internals to support boost levels to sustain this power (15-17psi), you might as well add a bigger compressor wheel, eh?
Oh well, just thinking out loud.
12-02-02, 11:57 PM
#122
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375 on a stock engine stock turbo car??? ..at fifteen lbs??? LMAO
time to see the emperors new clothes.
but i do agree with you...it is possible to hit that power level on stock turbos...the one and only anthony proved that long ago right? what were his numbers again?
but one or two runs does not count. That is fantasy land to think you can do that daily on stock turbos...unless you got lots of sets of stock turbos..haha.
I agree with much of what you said...except for the stock turbo stock motor car pushing 375+...unless he is spraying. what is his mod list?
j
time to see the emperors new clothes.
but i do agree with you...it is possible to hit that power level on stock turbos...the one and only anthony proved that long ago right? what were his numbers again?
but one or two runs does not count. That is fantasy land to think you can do that daily on stock turbos...unless you got lots of sets of stock turbos..haha.
I agree with much of what you said...except for the stock turbo stock motor car pushing 375+...unless he is spraying. what is his mod list?
j
12-03-02, 01:22 AM
#123
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12-03-02, 02:53 AM
#124
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very well done...it seems the emperor has clothing afterall.
well its nice to see...my car didnt pull like that on stock motors and turbos...I wonder how that success came about.
interesting to say the least.
Definitely not the norm at all...and definitely not to be expected with anyone elses car.
congrats to him
jason
well its nice to see...my car didnt pull like that on stock motors and turbos...I wonder how that success came about.
interesting to say the least.
Definitely not the norm at all...and definitely not to be expected with anyone elses car.
congrats to him
jason
12-03-02, 03:26 AM
#125
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ya know...thanks for posting that link...i havent been digging around in the single turbo section for a while...spent fifteen minutes in there and learned a whole bunch of things. got me all excited to learn some more. tis appreciated.
tuning tuning....fascinating stuff.
that vid of the twin setup was amazing. Non seq I assume...but for the life of me i cant figure it out. I was reading some other posts in there about that kind of thing and I think everyone in the single turbo forum will be surprised to see it....barring anthonys 11.2 run I hear about via the telephone game in here.
Honestly...if you can get that kind of power out of your twin setup RELIABLY...then go for it. I sure didnt...nor did I try after the third set of stock twins I had experienced meltdown.
all i want is to have my car done at those same kind of power numbers and have a little better spoolup to compensate for my healthy streetport...lower temps on the bb setup is good as well.
again...its amazing what great tuning can do. Squeezing power ...wow.
j
tuning tuning....fascinating stuff.
that vid of the twin setup was amazing. Non seq I assume...but for the life of me i cant figure it out. I was reading some other posts in there about that kind of thing and I think everyone in the single turbo forum will be surprised to see it....barring anthonys 11.2 run I hear about via the telephone game in here.
Honestly...if you can get that kind of power out of your twin setup RELIABLY...then go for it. I sure didnt...nor did I try after the third set of stock twins I had experienced meltdown.
all i want is to have my car done at those same kind of power numbers and have a little better spoolup to compensate for my healthy streetport...lower temps on the bb setup is good as well.
again...its amazing what great tuning can do. Squeezing power ...wow.
j