We both had oil leaks. The ball bearing twins do not need anywhere near the amount of oil that the stock turbos do. So till I/we replaced the oil line bango fittings with resticted ones the seals leaked. Now it's no longer a problem. Never had any problems with the stock oil lines themselves. And it was hardly "a shirtload of propblems'.

 

on a side note....another option to the restrictor pills is installing a catch can system which supposedly will collect and rechannel the excess oil back into the oilpan. I havent researched it too much but I did hear that was an option a while back (if you were running turbos that needed less oil).

j

 

I just want to let you guys know that I'm not flaming. As you guys know, I'm thinking about going upgraded twins. I just was stating, that non-seq is'nt as bad as one would think.

I did a quick plot vs Bills, and my dyno sheets. I did make more power just about everywhere. It was about dead even with torque and HP at 3,500ish. But if you look at the torque curve on his dyno plot, you'll see that its not falling nearly as fast as mine. I'm positive with correct tuning, and a properly running car, that even at 12psi, the m2s would make much more power. Just look at his dyno sheet before the ingition problems. It would of probably made close to 300rwhp.

At this moment, I'm either going t04s, or BNRs. I'm leaning toward to4s...but the bnr's are'nt far behind. CJ

 

i disagree with pp13....non seq is as bad as it seems. ...in certain driving situations.

Ive run my car both seq and non seq....have also run with a stock motor and a streetported motor.....the m2 twins in seq make a night and day difference over any seq system in terms of lag. Goracer has a great car..a perty full mod list and was running 14lbs of boost non seq. I would run him with 13lbs on the m2 set and would launch like crazy off the line or from a roll on the highway....the m2 set boosts immediately...it boosts much much sooner than stock and as captain bill said it is hard to tell when full boost comes on because it hits so fast. while the non seq driver is waiting to build boost I am pulling away by car lengths....thats the way i like it. now now now.


non seq has a "wait time" ...that in addition to my streetport made city driving unbearable for me.

I put it back to seq and was so happy...the response was back.

bills dyno plot was taken at a much lower operating efficiency range in terms of boost levels than m2 built the turbos to be run. at 16lbs (which is a safe level with the m2 set due to less heat) the m2 set is smoking fast.

one of us will have a dyno plot on a FIXED and WORKING machine soon. until then you are comparing apples to oranges.

if you drove a car with the m2 set and then drove another car that had non seq you would see what Im talking about. It is NIGHT and DAY difference. I promise you that. check bills 40-70 times on his car that was not properly tuned...they still rock everyone because his power is there when he wants it...even if it is not the peak power that his car should be seeing.

in city driving seq and the m2 set is like peanut butter and jelly.

non seq is like anchovies and menudo....

up in the back roads of oregon and the much quieter levels of traffic Im sure it is a blast...too bad I live in LA.



j

 

pp13bnos,
I didn't think you were flaming. And I am not saying the M2s are the end all be all set up for an FD. It's just the way I desided to go. And at this point I intend to stick with them till I get them sorted out. I have always liked the low end boost of the stock set up and the M2s seem to be the way to get the best of both worlds.

 

Artguy, did you have a aftermarket boost controler (I don't count the p-fc as a boost controler as it pretty much sucks.), or did you even tune it for running non-seq? Bolth of these are very important.

Because like I said in my dyno thread, I whent in putting down 260ish rwhp, and came out aroound 295ish. When Ralph did some minor tuning on it, the bottom end realy came up. He leaned it out, and put some more timing into the motor where there was vacuum/low boost wich made a night and day change. Theres still alot more possiable with my car. Its still running so rich that it lets out a fireball when I shift.

Could bolth of you guys post your 40-70mph times? When i get my car back together from the Hi-6 install and relocating the air temp. sensor, I'll do a 40-70mph run. And the weather has to be nice. My FD is a sunny day driver only.

Artguy, when did you see full boost with those m2s running non-seq? I was just wondering.

CJ

 

3.6 - 3.8 sec. 40 - 70 times

 

I tuned that car for 11's all the way across...slightly richer after 7k and leaner at idle and vacuum. the car is tuned. it took both fd racer and i about two weeks of nightly tuning to get it right and to get as many readings possible.

yes the pfc sucks for boost control. I have a 3bar greddy profec b. I ran it set up three different ways....no computer control...both prespool and turbo control routed thru the profec and also the proper way to set it up.

all I know is that at 16+lbs and about 3800 my tires would break loose and give my rear end a case of tunafish. Im not talking about just spinning the tires...Im talking "roasting" the tires simply under hard accelleration.

I did the absolute poormans non seq...just wired the sucker open. Im told that I could cut about 500 rpms off that number if I went full non seq and removed all the restrictions for better flow. however...i really dont care....I like my boost at 2k...I like my boost at 2500....I like my boost at 2800....and non seq felt like I was driving a ford festiva who smoked some crack at 3800 rpms. no ballz down low....

who knows though...maybe some non seq guru could get the boost issues down to 32-3300....regardless, I still wouldnt do it because of the downtime until then.

seq with the m2 setup is so smooth....and instant....they werer designed with that in mind and that is the way i prefer it.


j

 

Artguy, do you have any 40-70mph times? CJ

EDIT: On the dyno It would take me 4.01 seconds to go from 3,500 to 6,800 rpms or so. I know its not a real word driving experience, nor do i know what the real speed is, but that will give you and indication of how fast the car goes from those engine speeds. But like I said, when its back together, i'll get some times for you guys.

 

I can't wait for the full results either, since my turbos are now leaking.

In all fairness, ArtGuy's night & day difference does include his ported motor which moves up the power curve.

I can say in a 1/8th mi run, his car allready blew mine away "allegedly" before I even hit boost! With the M2's running sequentialy, he took off (allegedly) instantly, no wheel spin, no delay and my groupy wanted to jump in his car "lol".

When he was running 16lbs, his FD's rear end was as loose my my date last night in the movie theatre (i'm a **** "lol").

 

GOracer, do you have any 40-70mph times too? CJ

 

No, no official times but his power on the freeway is instant as well espcially since he does not have to downshift to 4th. That reminds me of the Porsche Turbo 911 that pulled up to me, then the g/f waved bye-bye laughing at me as he spanked me in my Honda CRX. (allegedly)

 

My 40-70 3rd gear times were 2 consecutive 3.5 second runs when I was non-seq with the stock twins. When you are in the "power range" of 4K-6K rpms, non-seq DOES have more punch than a sequential car and also more torque. But a properly tuned sequential car will own a non-seq car in most situations. It was interesting, my 40-50 time seemed to take 2 seconds and my 50-70 times were 1.5 secs..kinda like a slingshot. It's a tradeoff of low-end for midrange power and non-seq is much more reliable and predictable..but it gets tiring of waiting for the "power zone" rather than having instant boost. Some of you non-seq "experts" need to have driven cars in both setups in all conditions to know which is better overall..sequential hands down.

 

capt.bill1- glad to hear you got the oil leak situation resolved. My recollection was that there was some back and forth with M2 before you (or artguy) got the problem solved. Seemed like a fresh out of the box turbo should have worked without as much tinkering. Anyway- good to hear they work well.
Ron A.

 

Thanks,
Never did get both restictors from M2 had to have one made up here. No big deal, put as far as I'm concerned Artguy and I are the guinea pigs with this set up. By the way, when I started down this road I saw what looked like the same turbos on an OZ site. When I asked M2 if that is where they got them they denied it. I have since found out that that is were they get them from. Can't blame them trying to keep a trade secret. But I do feel like I was getting the run around on the restictors. Which I suspect M2 either had to get directly from OZ. Because if they only had to get the info on what size to make them it would not have taken so long just to get one and there would be no reason to send only one when they knew I needed two.

 

What is the web address of the OZ site??
John

 

Whats the "OZ site"? Do you mean the turbos are available as pre-built units, not requiring a core?

 

the oz company only sells to m2 to my knowledge. M2 is their distributer here.

if you call m2 you can find out if they have them available with no cores. when bill got his they were just getting started with the set.

I think bill was their first customer and I know of no more than ten sets on the market...he and i were the prototype guys.

call brian at m2...he can answer all your questions.


j

 

Check out my mod list...My car was faster 40-70 when it was stock. Thats how friggin bad my lag is...non seq is absolute garbage...and I have the real non-seq setup. Yeah my car flies up high, but who cares when it takes 8 seconds to get to 4.5k.

 

well so much for the bnr set being any fun down low..

btw widebody...great mod list!

finally..another person who sees the light..non seq is not all that it is cracked up to be. its flat out boring during normal driving conditions and kills the spirit of what the rx7 is.

rikki wants everyone to go non seq and is helpful but he only drives his car at the track now...which is what a streetport and non seq will do to ya....especially if you put on larger wheels and heavier internals like the bnr set.

hey widebody...what kind of power difference do you notice? can you describe the feel of the bnr set?

did you do a dyno run yet?


j

 

Hmm....going single sounds better and better after hearing about those BNRs. I was thinking a T-78, or a t04x squared....I figure If i go with a to4s, I'll want more power sooner or later...might as well shoot for 500rwhp off the bat. If I miss the bottom end, I can allways run a 75shot.

Besides that I have to beat my older brothers 5.0. He ran a best of 11.17@129mph this last year. As you can see, he has some traction issues, and fraged a clutch this year. Can't let him beat me. CJ

 

How long ago did you get the BNR set, Widebody2? Supposedly he has new secret sauce (think it's better seals). 40-70 in 8sec? ...that sounds like you needed to down shift? What about 0-40mph? I think this is where most street driving is at and this is where the sequential difference would be most important. On the highway, I could allways downshift even though cruise control makes me lazy.

I think BNR is a good alternative for the wallet consience but I don't think it's in the same class as M2 (could be wrong). I think a better comparison is M2 -vs- GT35/40 ...to be single or get a bigger pair of twins, baby

 

I keep hearing about upgraded twins and how everyone keeps saying they are so much better than single turbo but I haven't seen any dyno charts yet. Artguy, when are you going to get numbers for your car? I'm sure everyone is anxious to see what you make

 

I wouldn't say that upgraded twins are better than a single turbo because they are not..they're just an alternative. With both the M2 ball-bearing and BNR dynamic seals turbos your going to have serious spooling when setup sequentially and will hold the power of a small-medium sized single turbo to redline. But you still have to deal with the rat's nest......Bryan has my turbos now, should be back in the car and dynoed by the end of next week. I'm sure artguy's and my dyno sheet will be very comparable and will give the FD market a nice alternative to going single.

 

I don't feel right giving out the OZ info right now. But it's too not hard to find.