smog baby...smog

LAG SUCKS...I hate it...lag changes the spirit of the car...and you can take that to the bank. the only reason you say that is because you havent driven a car with the m2 set. that would change your mind on the spot.


yer single right ****...how are you getting it smogged? ...if i remember correctly you have an rx6...Im a 3bar map sensor away from running the same power numbers as you and I have faster spoolup time. hehehehe

the shaft bearing 99 twins cant handle high boost reliably and thus will not put out much more power than stock. plus shaft turbos put out much higher temps...and I for one lost two motors due to heat problems. Im not doing it again....anything that cuts heat in QUANTITY is good with me.

j

btw..goracer...i found out that the upgraded wheels are still for the gt30s...just larger wheels on the gt30 internals...

Id have had a dyno chart long ago if xs didnt tune my car like ***. you can blame your favorite shop for that. I had an appt with them months ago to dynotune my car...then they nearly blew up my car with all the huge detonation that comes from CARELESS tuning....they convinced me to let them tune my ecu...completely convinced me....and the rest of the story just pisses me off.

FD RACER and I tuned my car ourselves with the datalogit and wideband...and that takes time..research...and more time. and honestly..its totally worth it.

j

 

I found the dyno chart in this thread, this is from capt. bill1's car, I know he had some issues, but its the only dyno chart I have seen for the M2's.
Here is the dyno chart at 12 psi I believe.

While the numbers look pretty good, I can't say I'm really all that impressed. Looks like the $3,000 would be better spent else where. GT35/40, 99 Spec Twins, etc...

 

thats old...and his car doesnt perform like that anymore

bring your clunker to so cal glassman. Ill smoke you just for posting that old untuned chart

bill was running the m2 ecu which is not set up to handle the flow differences. m2 says flat out not to use it for that set of turbos. he has since decided to go with a power fc and will be tuning using the datalogit. you cant run a chip upgrade "guesstimate map" on a highly modified car. He also cant run any more boost than that without having his injectors etc...

the m2 set doesnt wake up til at least 14lbs...and it really wakes up at 16lbs. it is meant to be used at high boost. think about it. the above dyno chart was taken on an untuned car with igntion and other problems. it was also taken on his car with no injector upgrade and no proper fuel map.

when you dont have enough fuel you are going to have problems.


oddly...if you dig up the 40-70 times thread you will find that bill had the best or one of the best times in the entire big thread....a full second or more faster than most people on that thread.


I can understand why you would feel such things..however your statement is uninformed and based on poor quality information (dyno charts taken from his untuned car even though it was having problems with some ignition stuff ..no injectors...out of boost efficiency range)

I can post a dyno chart of a t78 that is only pushing 290 hp....you gonna go say that you arent impressed with that set then?? that is a problem with the tuning...not with the turbo. right???


wait til its tuned...or wait til im in arizona next and Ill run your car and show you what multiple car lengths looks like.

these turbos spool so fast that when running my buddies 4wd turbo upgrade eclipse I only lose about a third of a car length off the line befoer passing him for good....the car just takes off...back when I had my stock set I would get jumped by two car lengths....they spool IMMEDIATELY.


jason

haha


j

 

Well my "clunker" put down 30 rwhp more then that @ 10 psi. I also had "issues".
This is with stock turbos mind you. I would love to bring my "clunker" to the Peoples Repubilc of Kalifornia, but would get way too many tickects for a car that is way illegal and too loud out there. One of the many reasons I would not move there with this car.
I'm not trying to start a flame war, and while you think I may be "uninformed" I can't really say much either way, because nobody has numbers for these turbos either way. Not dyno, not track, nothing other then some guesses of 40-70 mile times.
I would like to think for $3,000 you are getting something that will perform well, be so far there is no hard evidence or proof to show this.
For $3,000 you get rebuilt, upgraded turbos with a stock manifold and no warranty.
But what kind of performance do you get for $3,000???
I reserve judgement until I see some other dyno graphs and some track times, until then the jury is still out on these turbos (which have been out for a couple of years now).

 

Bottom line, we still have no real clue for their performance, no one has a "properly tuned" car with the twin upgrade, nor a dyno sheet or even a good timeslip...

We're all still waiting. I'm not doubtful as much as I am tired of waiting, how long should it take to prove the product? Do we finally dismiss the upgrade after 3-4 years have passed?

Wade

 

I've seen Atguy's M2 in action. It takes off instantly, like a bullet. No spinning tires, no delay, no lag, just goes zoom zoom.

As far as dyno tuning results, Capt'n Bill1 maybe be closer to having that accomplished, but we haven't heard the latest from him.

 

It is hard to believe that there is virtually no tuning or dyno info on these, at least from M2, and that no one has really managed to show up at a dyno with a properly functioning car, and tuned them.

 

cost same as artguy, just no core

 

Yes, that is my only dyno chart.
I have the ignition problem fixed that caused the plot to go flat a 6000 rpm. It now pulls strong till red line.
And in fact runs stronger at all rpms.

I had hope to have a fresh dyno plot before now.
The FL Mazda club had a test day setup in Naples FL but when we all showed up they told us the dyno was down.
I have not been able to get another dyno plot as I am in MD at the moment and my car is in FL.

I am up to 13 lb of boost at this point.
But I doubt I can go any higher till I get a engine management system and install my 1300 injectors.
I do intend to get another dyno plot on the engine as it is setup now.
I will be home in about a week and hope to have time to do it then.

At this point I would guess it has 300 or so RWHP.
And as Artguy has stated it does have a very fast 40-70 time.

I keeping hearing about how single turbo kits are so much cheaper than the M2 setup but all I ever see are single kits with prices like the ones below:

Greddy T-78 Kit for 93-95 RX-7
Retail $4,500.00
Price $3,375.00

GT35/40 Turbo Kit
93-95 RX-7
Retail Price Qty Order
$4,900.00 $3,600.00





click for Info/buy
Greddy T-88 Kit for 93-95 RX-7
Retail $4,800.00
Price $3,599.00


click for Info/buy
Greddy TD06 Kit for 89-92 RX-7
Retail $3,136.00
Price $2,450.00



click for Info/buy
Greddy TD06 Kit for 93-95 RX-7
Retail $4,150.00
Price $2,979.00





click for Info/buy
Apexi Turbo Kit for 93-95 RX-7
Retail $4,500.00
Price $3,499.00





XS Engineering



click for Info/buy
T04E Kit 93-95 RX-7
Price $2,999.00


click for Info/buy
T04S Kit 93-95 RX-7
Price $3,250.00


So were are all those cheap single kits I keep hearing about?

 

I'm waiting to finally see someone work out all the bugs out of a system that is a bug itself.

I keep hearing non-seq sucks...but as far as capt bills dyno page....I'm making as much hp, but slightly more torque by 3,500rpms. After that, I realy pull away from him.

Not flaming here....just want to see somone get it all together.

CJ

Those XS kits are pretty close $$ wise. Even cheaper if you know someone.

 

pp13bnos, what's your set up and were can I see your plots?

 

Running these upgraded twins (M2s) non-seq. wouldn't be so bad for lag since they spool quickly, but artguy says there is a noticeable difference in lag between seq. and non-seq with the M2s. Non-seq. will only make more power between 4K and 5K rpms (about 20 more on average) and evens out above that. Below 4K non-seq is owned totally - there is no comparison. When racing a highway run, if you drop in the sweet spot of 4K in 3rd, you'll pull a sequential FD a little ..but if you dare drop it at 3K rpms, you're done. Lag is very apparent below that and 5th gear is more powerful in a Toyota Echo than in a non-seq FD. Running upgraded twins sequentially would be the ultimate streetcar in my eyes..full boost by 2800 rpms.

 

I've noticed many people say this lately and part of it is incorrect. With the non sequential conversion properly done, you will (should) make more power from when the turbos spool to redline. They don't "even out" when both turbos come online because you will have removed several restrictions in the exhaust manifold and turbine housing when you did the non sequential mods. ...just an FYI.

 

non seq with a streetport is even worse. ...down low at all!

gotta love the low end.

non seq is like a hot chick with perfect big **** and no *** to stand em up.

so much for doggy style....

j

 

I love the instant response of the stock sequential in city driving. But, I can't tune out either the flat spot or spike during the transition at 4500 rpm. It sucks during steady state cornering to get this unsteady response as I sweep through 4500 rpm. My cure for it is to keep the rpm above 5K.

I would like to go to single turbo but Virginia is unclear on visual smog inspection, so I'm keeping the twins for now.

Look at Porsche, they were the first to do a study on sequential (aka 959) but now have moved two generations away from sequntial twin turbos.

 

If you do a search with my name and the word dyno, you should find it. Keep in mind, I'm still running the stock cat back.

FYI, depending apon who street ported your engine, you will build boost faster down low. Look at Rikki. He's seeing full boost by 3,300? Also, a guy by the name of dominic in Rotary power north west is running a non-seq setup with a ceramic apex seals/ported motor. Hes seeing full boost by 3,500rpms too. Also tuning has alot to do with when a motor starts building boost.

CJ

 

Ill believe that rikki is getting full boost at 3300 when I see it. how is he building boost the same as running it seq...seq has full boost at what 3200??


3500 is probably possible...just not on any of the non seq guys cars that I have seen.


j

 

I have full boost well below 3000. It comes on so fast it's hard to tell at exactly what RPM I see full boost but by 2800 I know I see full boost.

 

I did a search with your name and dyno, got nothing.

 

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...highlight=dyno

Maybe the search function was'nt working ehh? CJ

Keep in mind that was only on 12psi.

 

Got it. Thanks

 

A few months ago, I was debating whether to get the M2 or Pettit. Got the Pettit and shortly thereafter there was a series of posts from someone who got the new M2 ball bearing twins and had a shirtload of problems with the oil lines and over lubrication and oil leaks. M2 sent him a restrictor pill to put in the oil line to decrease the oil flow to correct the problem. Anyone on this thread have the same problem with the oil and M2 twins? BTW the Pettit twins are working fine. Faster spool than the stock, internally radiused and polished, ceramic coated for longer life. Dyno next week to see what the difference in output is.

 

I'm sure your talking about artguy. He seems to have gotten the oil leaking under control with the pills. I'm not sure if it's the ball-bearing design or what that makes them take more oil.

 

How are your BnR turbos?? Do they spool slowly, are you running them NS or Seq.?
John

 

The reason the M2's leak oil is because they use less oil than the stock turbos. Artguy explained all this in a previous post. This is why M2 gives you a restrictor pill so you won't get as much oil and the turbos will work perfectly.