93blackr1

M2 claims it can produce 400+hp per turbo...then that means it can supply 800hp or 80lbs air/min and almost close to a Garrett T-72 which can make 85lbs air/min. Any Compressor Maps that can back this up? I want to see it on paper. Thanks.

SanJoRX7

I doubt that the claim of ~800hp is possible. That'd require a 20b with some monster KKK's or something. I'd say that if anything it's a typo...probably 400hp from the two of them total. I think Want2Race has this setup...check with him to see what kind of numbers he's got (not likely much over 350 at the wheels).

Patrick

93blackr1

I know...I also doubted M2's claim about the upgraded turbos. It'll be mind blowing if it's true...guess just have to wait and see who'll come up with some numbers for proof. I don't think it's worth it if M2 has no proof on paper. It's so easy, why don't M2 just send it to Turbonetics or Innovative turbos and have it tested and get actual compressor maps in their website...then we know if it's worth it. To those that already have the M2 upgraded turbos, please don't attack me on this, I just wanted real proof before I spend 3K. I know the turbo lag is almost gone but how about max lbs of air/min? just my .02 cents.

Johnny

Dont think they ever claimed 800hp....maybe 400, but at what boost levels I dont know... Some people have had them dynoed..but they was always another excuse as to why the numbers where so low....so the jury is still out on them...

want2race does not have m2's...I thought it was capt bill or something

widebody2

They are sequential and the claim was probably that each turbo could possibly make 400 hp but they work at seperate times. They would never claim a rediculous number like 800 hp. It is capt bill who has them and he had a dyno of something insane like 270 hp but that was also with some huge problem or something. I wouldn't doubt that they could make 400 hp but probably at a pretty high boost. I would guess they make the same top hp as upgraded twins like the Pettits but probably spool a bit faster.

93blackr1

I'm not sure what's the status of capt. bill1's progress on fine tuning his car. Can't wait till he turned up some boost with good quality stand alone system and well over-engineered fuel system that can support his set-up.

3rdGenLuvr

For the price of them M2's, Im not sure if its not smarter goin the single route.

widebody2

singles require a bit more tuning and the installation is a much bigger project. The m2s are very close to a direct bolt on replacement. But I think I'd still have to agree with 3rdgenluvr

93blackr1

I think to save problems, labor and money in the future...I also agree with 3rdGenLuvr...to think about it going single turbo would eliminate replacing those unreliable hoses underneath the intake plenum to make those twins working properly and is more efficient. The disadvantage of going single are low rpm response and torque (depends on turbo). it's all about physics small twin turbo = (-) inertia to spin, and single turbo (again depends on the size of the turbo) = (+) inertia to spin. I guess it really depends where you use the car (autocross, street, drag, or street/strip). Again just my .02 cents.

mjw

iTrader: (1)

The other thing to consider (for those of us in CA) is that thing setup will still allow you to pass smog.. but there are other ways.

Matt
93 touring

93blackr1

mjw, it depends, when doing smog check, they look for all the smog devices if they are all on the engine and it should work by the results of the smog check. Each and every single smog devices should do its job in controlling pollutants that the rotary engine makes. Remember they put the car on those rollers and they are going to put a load on the engine...hmmmm...since it's a M2 BALL BEARING turbo, of course it'll spool the turbos quicker than stock then would release more exhaust gasses with pollutants in it. With the ecu already upgraded to match those M2 turbos, it'll rich up then would create more CO...then it won't pass smog.

capt. bill1

The only problem I have had with the M2 turbos is that there is to much oil flowing to them and it is leaking passed the seals. Once I get a restriction kit that should stop that. I see full boost before 3000rpm. The reason I am only making 275rwhp so far is two fold. One, at the time I dynoed the car my J&S box was causing the motor to go flat above 6000rpm and two, until I get a good engine managment system and bigger injectors I can't reliably run more than 12 lb of boost. Neither of these things has anything to do with the turbos. I have not dynoed the car since I removed the J&S box but it now pulls strong to red line. So I know I am making more than 275rwhp now. Sent the box back to J&S and they claim there is nothing wrong with it. It's now at RX7.com were I bought it and they are going to put it on a car and test it. By the way my last 40-70 third gear acceleration test time was 3.2-3.6 sec..

ttpowerd

want2race used to have m2's or pettit's (dont' remember which) and now he has custom hi flow twins

93blackr1

capt. bill1,

Can you post at least one dyno run? I would liked to see the power curve and the transition from primary to secondary turbo. Thanks.

Is M2 still going to produce their own EMS? If not, I reccomend AEM's new EMS. Check out the new Turbo Magazine April, 2002, they did a test on the EMS.

mjw

iTrader: (1)

What I meant by pass smog was the visual inspection, unless you have a Carb # most technicians will notice a single snail in there and question it. With the M2 setup it looks like a stock setup from the exterior.. your points about spool time may be accurate though and cause it to fail the sniffer that way. Honestly though, I have gotten some VERY questionable things past smog techs on visuals, they really don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground most of the time.

Matt
93 touring

capt. bill1

93blackr1, I have my dyno plots in my computer but I'm affraid I don't know how to get them posted here. If someone can walk me through it I would be glad to post them.

Want2race

I never had M2 or Pettits...
I bought a set from an ******* in alabama.. I think the problem is call bearings can and usually do use teflon seals. The problem is under high heat they fail and then you turbos die. This has happened to me not once, not twice, but 3 times!!!

once you bolt them in you will be amazed @ the power! Full boost EVERYTIME you put your foot down! Its like the car always has boost ( power is like a v8!!) When it transions it goes from mild power to insain. The car pulls and pulls and pulls!

Then you suddently decide to check your oil and for some reaosn your down 1 quart! ( this is in 100 miles!) I then opened up the piping and found it ALL in the intake hoses. My intercooler was FILLED with oil...Not something i want to see often but have to live with now..

I dont recommend them, For the money you could own a single turbo and you might as well.. The single lasts longer, probably pulls even harder and doesnt spit oil! The benefits of twins is far outweighed by the problems. If you cana fford to spend $800 in labor to change them every 1000 miles ( if that!) Then by all means proceed that way! The rebuilds are only $1900 for 2 new ball bearing cartridges...


For my money.. Im saving up for a single... Not because i want insain power, but because i want a cool engine bay and dont ever want to see oil in my intercooler like that again

~Jonathan

93blackr1

mjw, sure it'll pass visual inspection.

I heard from other guys that have big sinlge turbo that passes smog with a high flow cat. The fact that a bigger turbo has more inertia to spin, the sniffer can't get enough exhaust gasses to read then it has a good chance to pass smog. I found this out from the guys from Road Race Engineering's customers with Eclipses and Talons. I know the rotary produce more air than piston engine and I'm not sure it'll work the same way.

artguy

My m2 ballbearings should be done in the next day or two. Ill have them on th car next week if all goes as planned.

I went with the m2 set because I cant pass smog legally with the rx6 single turbo kit I wanted. I also have a ported motor and that caused a lot of my low end umph to disappear in favor of high rpm zoom. I use my car on the street mostly and its stop light to stoplight fun in the LA area.

your 800 hp claims are wrong. M2 claims that 400 hp is possible at higher boost levels 17-18lbs or so if you have the right mod list to support that...I have almost everything I need to do so...just need a larger IC and Im full boost...they are guessing 375 at the wheels for around 15lbs of boost.

stock turbos pushed hard last just a few thousand miles....pushed hard meaning 13lbs or more.

M2 also now includes the restrictor pills to eliminate the oil problem.

I cant wait. Ill post a dyno chart next month when the motor is broken in and I have my IC.

jason

atihun

Well, I've been using my stock twins for over a year at 13 psi. They are originals, with 94K on them now. It has approximately 15K on them since I got the PFC. So I think they will last longer than just a few thousand miles. The secondary turbo is however starting to leak a little oil, but no blowby yet!

Wish me luck; I have to get the car smogged this month!

93blackr1

My stock twins are still in good shape too. Since we replaced those stupid a@* vacuum hoses to new ones from Tri-Point engineering's transparent ones, I know the turbos will work properly, since the wastegate is regulated at max 12psi, and when I get the new AEM EMS, who knows what going to happen...

artguy

leaky leaky...pretty soon stinky stinky.

my interior still smells faintly of burning oil.

lesson learned.

j

widebody2

My twins leaked oil for a year and a half while I owned the car and who knows how long they leaked before I got it...the are the originals with 72k on them. I have been pushing 15 lbs for 6 months and they still spool right up to 15. So I guess that kind of proves you wrong. The last time I took my car out was for a big race against a bike and after the race they were smoking and now more oil seems to be on the underside of my car. I guess they have finally run out of life. They still make great power though.

artguy

puddles of oil all over the garage and blue smoke barrelling out the rear end at start up sucks. exactly my point...stock turbos pushed past stock limits do not last. leaky turbos make the rex look like a piece of junk. stinky..smokey...dirty...drippy...yuck.

you think they pull fine...pull apart your turbos and inspect those wheels in there...they are most likely brittle and cooked with little chips missing in them from the heat damage from 15lbs of abuse.... the seals are shot and you need a new set. enjoy them while they still work...when you get a new set...and youll have to...Id take it easy on them unless you have pockets like trump.

hahah Im no trump...just a bitter guy pissed about his three sets of fried stock junk. Im sure Im not the only one.

j

billvp

click on "post reply" (can't do it with the post reply at the very bottom), then under where you regularly type you will see where it says "attach file" ... click "browse" and then find the dyno plot you are looking for (on your computer) then click "open" and it should bring you back to the Rx7 Forum "post reply" screen, and you will see something in the "attach file" space --- that is your dyno plot, which will show up as an attachment that everyone can see when they click on it

I'm not sure of the [img] rules on this site, but you may be able to link the img off your attachment directly if you "edit" your post afterwards, but that is unnecessary