austinsFD

well i just got my rx7 dynoed a week ago and on the last run the engine blew. btw i didn't sign anything saying their not liable if the engine blows. the shop that did it for me first said that i could go and watch, then a few days before the dyno day they said, you can't be there for legal reasons.. so i was like whatever.. so at the end of the day i got a call from them and they said, on the last run the boost spiked and blew the engine. and i have 2 choices ether, than i could pay for new ceramic apex seals for $1200 or we can tow the car back to me. I was like WTF!?! and said i'll get back to him.

what should i do?

btw i won't release the name of the shop, unless i get a positive result from the shop e.g. fully paid for, or a large discount.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

I believe "you play you pay" is the old adage, it might not be their fault that your motor popped. Sometimes it's just time to go. Haven't you mentioned overheating problems on these boards? Or boost issues or something? I don't remember.

Did you pay them to tune the car, or just test the power on the dyno? If you paid them to tune it, it sounds like they did a bad job and might be liable, depending on the work order that you signed. Read what you signed, most places have you sign something before they'll touch your car.

It is possible to rebuild a motor using regular steel apex seals, it's not like ceramic seals are your only choice.

Good luck,
-s-

austinsFD

yeah it was tuned and I didn't take it in my mechanic did, so i guess he signed it. I havn't signed anything besides the work order/recipt for my credit card which was the shops paper and didn't say anything about being liable.

the shop only offers ceramic seals in their warrenty.

and i fixed everything e.g. overheating, ic piping and the engine had less than 11k on it and before they took it to the dyno, they did a compression test and said it passed with flying colors. the car was in pretty much perfect running condision besides it using the basic PFC MAP

EDIT: the only thing was that it was using a manual boost controller, I had a profec but i had to return it cause it was defective so in the mean time i was using a manual boost controller, but the mechanic said it would be fine for tuning, so i belived him

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

I have no advice for you, but you might want to check out this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/my-engine-blew-while-mechanic-test-driving-238928/

skunks

with service like that, it seems like this company is running its business like how hennessy did. i know a guy which brought his new Z06 to him and he ran a ridiclous amount of nitrous on his engine and blew it. he (hennessy) then just said woops and said you can pay me for a new engine and/or just take your car back (note this person was living in hawaii at the time). in anycase, long story short he took his car back and got it tuned at MTI with a new engine (which put out about 770rwhp, its the white Z06 vette which ran 9's in the 1/4 mile with SW driving it). He could not get his money back from hennessy though

he has since sold that car to a retired cop in new jersey i think and he has bought a new 996 TT with 750hp

it does seems kinda weird that you could not be there to watch them dyno your car.

on the flip side of things, your car might have just had its time ready and it was gonna go with or without the tuning. i would imagine that it would not take a whole lot to let a seal go, especially if it over boosted as they said it did. what kind of boost controller did you have installed and what kinda of ecu are you running? also, what kinda of mods did you have on your car?

Unfortunatly, I think all you might be able to do is to bad mouth them and/or warn others about them and try to put them out of business. that or try to make a deal like the other guy did in the other post (the one linked to in the message above this one)

BTW: what kinda shop only offers ceramic seals in their warrenty?

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

I think the manual boost controller is your weak leg to stand on. That should not have been on the car for tuning. Or i should say the car should not have been tuned with the manual controller on it. And your mechanic should feel very very bad for telling you otherwise.

Anyways sometimes you learn the hard way. I think..no i Know it will cost you more in legal costs then a new engine. So live and learn and get a good boost controller before getting to a dyno.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

manual controller is far better than an electronic. it operates more quickly and more reliably but requires more fine tuning. and thats why you never let anyone drive your car folks. your car, your liability. you have to get them to sign **** saying its thier responsibility. the legal system doesnt care if you ever admitted liability, it was your liability. if you let someone play with your toy and they break it, its your porblem.

WaLieN

Why is it that a MBC is not suitable for a tuning?

akiratdk

Holly ****!!~~~ Austin you blew the motor????????
What the hell??? I better call you tommorrow morining...
Damn....

Speed of light

iTrader: (8)

You might want to do some background investigation to determine if this (engine failures) are a regular occurance at this shop or if it is an abberation.

You're in California, right? Check with the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) for complaints against this shop. There's sort of an automotive "three strikes" law here regarding complaints, which gives you considerable leverage and the shop some impetus to settle.

There are many cases where deliberate damage (or misdiagnosis occurs) in attempts to sell additional products or services. I'm not saying that has occured in your situation, but anytime someone is quick to sell a rebuild, I would be skeptical and CHECK IT OUT.

Additionally, you do have legal recourse regardless of what the shop says, what they have written on their contract or posted on the wall. It also has to be enforceable. If the engine blew while on their watch, then you could make the case that they were negligent. After all, they are the experts and are expected to reasonably forsee these situations and at least warn you. And how did they just happen to know it was the apex seals? Hmmmm...

Legally, their predication has to be more than just an assertion. In many of these types of cases, it comes down to aspects of law. So don't count yourself out on the technical merits--dyno run or not--it doesn't matter. You entrusted your car to their care and they blew it. I don't see it as being any different than an employee crashing a car into the shop hoist.

Do your homework.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

my statement should have been clarified more..as Barban said anyone else besides yourself is a bad idea.

i do however disagree that a MBC is better than an electronic. I have seen many engines blow with a MBC and not one out here with an elec. Due to the overboost protection mode. I guess it all comes down to your tuning abilities with the BC's. a personal preference. But i have seen nothing good come of them personally.

dubulup

WTF?????????????????

Scrapiron7

I've had an HKS EVC go bad, and also had a Hallman MBC go bad, so I've been on both sides of the fence. I'm now running a Blitz SBC-iD and when it comes down to it, I'd rather trust the electronic ones any day. At least when the HKS went bad, I couldn't build more than 7psi. When the manual went bad, it stuck WIDE open.

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

If the Dyno Test was being conducted while the vehicle was under their control and supervision, and by person/persons employed by the Shop in question,....then they should repair the damage(s) by making a calim under their General Liability (Premis/property damage policy).

The Dyno machine may have not been properly set-up to conduct the test specific to your car. Dyno machines, just like any other computer, need to be serviced from time to time to maintain proper accurate levels of operation.

Human error while conducting the test may have played a big part in how and why your engine suffered catostrophic failure.

Are the Dyno machine operators certified to operate the subject Dyno?? Have they attended classes or seminars on this specific Dyno machine?? When was the last time the subject Dyno was serviced??

The shop assumes liabilty if a Liability Waiver was not executed between the Shop and the Customer.

..just my 02. worth. (Only Attorneys can give "legal advise",...legally)

Snook

iTrader: (12)

It is their fault

you said it right there the boost spiked. Who's fault is that? they were the ones in control of the boost, timing and air fuel it's called tuning. Engines don't just blow especially new ones.

I'd tell them you want them to pay for a new engine and install it just like yours was. Dont have them rebuild yours as I can imagine what they would put in it to save money so you could just drive away.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I suggest that you contact an attorney. Find one that handles this type of thing. Usually a first consultation is free. The attorney will tell you what your rights are. You can ask them to send a letter to the shop. A letter from an attorney will let the shop know that you are serious, and not just some 18 year old kid who they can take advantage of.

Regarding boost controllers: A boost controller with moving parts can fail you when something goes wrong. I use a needle valve manual boost controller. It stays in one position. It doesn't move. If you were using this type of controller, and they blew the engine by overboosting, it is completely their fault.

dubulup

I'd like to learn more about this failure...there is a ceramic ball (RX-Pro) and a spring, how can that fail and stick wide open?

adam c

iTrader: (2)

A boost controller that sticks wide open will limit boost. The problem occurs when it sticks closed, causing the car to overboost.

jpandes

SPOautos

Exactly what would the dyno machine, its service records, its accurate levels of operation, the operators cartification, classes or seminars, or anything else like that have anything to do with blowing his engine. The only problem any of those would cause is inaccurate readings, non of that is controlling his engine or air fuel mixture that blew the engine.

The fact is, the dyno shop didnt install any of the parts on your car. If you tell them to strap your car to the dyno and put thier foot to the floor and they do that and it pops then its not thier fault. Personally, I think its more of your mechanics fault for installing the boost controller on the car and not setting it up to run the proper boost.

How high did the boost go? If you paid the mechanic to install a controller AND he said he would dial the boost in to a certain level but didn't do it then I'd be talking to him.

On a side note, I'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news but your turbos are shot too. The turbine wheels are all chewed up from apex seal going thru them.

Stephen

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Well, I have yet to see any dyno shop take responsibility for blowing an engine. Dyno's are always risky, not just for rotaries.


Was the dyno just for numbers or were they dyno-tuning the car?

Scrapiron7

To clarify, it failed after a 5-6 hour drive on the interstate. Midway to my destination, it crapped out and I was only building 5psi. I parked the car, adjusted it all way down and on the next drive it was still building 5psi. I then adjusted it most of the way open, and it was still at 5psi. I opened it up all the way, and whatever was wrong internally gave out, and I hit 16psi barely on it. I tried turning it back down, but it was stuck. Something internally failed. On my return trip home, I had it cranked closed but I was still way overboosting, I never took it apart to see what happened, it simply went in the trash when I got home.

Speed of light

iTrader: (8)

I concur with areXseven's post. He has outlined the basis (legal theory) for a negligence claim. Please understand that the execution of a liability waiver (not to mention your motor) does not protect the shop from negligence.

I would definately initiate a complaint with the BAR. Last time I checked, three verified complaints and they lose their license. (They will often resurface under new ownership and/or another name.) So if a shop is constantly changing--beware. Here's the link:

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/StdHome.asp?TextOnly=False

Someone above has suggested an attorney. This is a necessity, particulary if you are being shamed (i.e., fraud is invoved). If the shop made an honest screw up, they are only responsible for actual damages you sustained, but you still have to prove your case. If they intentionally blew up your motor in order to sell new apex seals, that would be a fraud and it's a whole different ball game...

Check out the BAR, get the attorney (and at least send them a letter) You may very well compel them to settle this matter in your favor.

This is not to be construed as actual legal advice. That's what the attorney is for.

areXseven

iTrader: (1)

Exactly my point!. An "inaccurate reading" such as.......

1)- Showing that the engine is at 7000rpm when it's actually at 9000 rpm,..or...
2)- Showing that boost level is at 10psi when it's actually at 15psi,..etc,..etc,..

AustinsFD: Have you retained the original (or copy) print-out of the Dyno analysis demonstrating the actual run when your Engine blew??

r0t0r-rooter

If this were the case, it would be the fault of the guage cluster, the power fc, and the boost gauge in the car.