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I have been racking my brain over an intercooler upgrade for almost a year now. So I am asking for your recommendations.
My car is LHD, sequential twins, and I plan on keeping it below 350whp. 300whp is more likely.
I do not track the car, but may do some light autocross in the future.
I do not have water injection, but am not opposed to installing it in the future.
I live south. Like close to Mexico south and it is freakin hot!
Keeping power steering, AC, and the battery under the hood are a must.
I already have a new KoyoRad.
The two kits I have my eye on are the HKS V-Mount and the PWR U type intercooler.
PWR U Type interooler. I attached pictures because not everyone knows a lot about it. Yes it is the kit sold my Marcus Read; no I do not believe his horse power claims.
Pros: Easy install. Easily reversible, if I decide on something else. As far as I know it is the most effective new SMIC that keeps a lead acid battery under the hood.
Cons: Very expensive for what it is. I believe it cost $1800, which is way steep for what you get IMO. Not as effective as a V mount.
HKS kit
Pros: Keeps battery under the hood. Not easy to install, but has all included hardware.
Cons: Known to have a problem with the fans scraping. My car is lowered (not excessively) and the roads here are riddled with pot holes. Since I have a MANA AC I will probably have to get custom lines made or at least remove and bend my stock lines?
I know the greddy kit will get suggested and here is my problem with that kit. First it does not use the stock radiator. If you were to bust the radiator, it is very expensive to buy a new one or you will have to get a custom one fabricated. Second it requires battery relocation. Again, not something I want do.
Thanks for reading and yes I know the world does not need another SMIC vs V mount thread, but I am just having a really hard time deciding. I started to order a PWR, but I am waiting on the ducts to be made.
There are now kits to retain a PC680 battery in stock location with the GReddy V-Mount. I also think that if anything happens that significantly damages that radiator, you've got bigger problems. Check @JP3 Motorsports GReddy is likely to still be around, they are reputable.
I wouldn't mess around with stock mount stuff anymore.
I have also considered the PWR U-Type intercooler as well as the Knightsports SMIC.
My main concern with those two intercoolers is both force you use some form of aftermarket intake, such as the Autoexe one shown in your first picture. It seems like not all cone-shape intakes would fit next to these intercoolers. They also require you to relocate/delete the AST, but I think at least the PWR kit should come with a relocation bracket.
I have no experience with a V-mount, but I share all of your concerns regarding keeping power steering, A/C, battery, etc. Most V-mount kits I've seen always require a pretty massive tear-up of the engine bay one way or another.
I have also considered the PWR U-Type intercooler as well as the Knightsports SMIC.
My main concern with those two intercoolers is both force you use some form of aftermarket intake, such as the Autoexe one shown in your first picture. It seems like not all cone-shape intakes would fit next to these intercoolers. They also require you to relocate/delete the AST, but I think at least the PWR kit should come with a relocation bracket.
I have no experience with a V-mount, but I share all of your concerns regarding keeping power steering, A/C, battery, etc. Most V-mount kits I've seen always require a pretty massive tear-up of the engine bay one way or another.
I already have an HKS RS intake so neither the PWR nor the HKS are an issue for me.
How have you been in touch with Marcus? I sent him an email about this intercooler and never got a response.
I plan on going with an SMIC like the PWR, mostly because I have the same AutoExe intake you posted. I love how the intake looks and SMICs are the only way to keep it. Otherwise, I'd be going VMIC. It's definitely a superior set up and it's not that much more expensive to do VMIC.
I would confirm that the HKS kit can work with your AC system though if you go the HKS route. USDM and JDM cars had different AC set ups.
How have you been in touch with Marcus? I sent him an email about this intercooler and never got a response.
I plan on going with an SMIC like the PWR, mostly because I have the same AutoExe intake you posted. I love how the intake looks and SMICs are the only way to keep it. Otherwise, I'd be going VMIC. It's definitely a superior set up and it's not that much more expensive to do VMIC.
I would confirm that the HKS kit can work with your AC system though if you go the HKS route. USDM and JDM cars had different AC set ups.
Yes I have been in touch with him. He usually answers my DMs on facebook in a day.
I have also considered the PWR U-Type intercooler as well as the Knightsports SMIC.
My main concern with those two intercoolers is both force you use some form of aftermarket intake, such as the Autoexe one shown in your first picture. It seems like not all cone-shape intakes would fit next to these intercoolers. They also require you to relocate/delete the AST, but I think at least the PWR kit should come with a relocation bracket.
I have no experience with a V-mount, but I share all of your concerns regarding keeping power steering, A/C, battery, etc. Most V-mount kits I've seen always require a pretty massive tear-up of the engine bay one way or another.
The GReddy will retain battery (miniaturied), A/C, PS, and comes with intakes for TTs. It's hands down the nicest, most complete kit I've ever purchased for the FD. And from a design perspective, V-mount is how the car should have come in the first place. Once you see it, it makes the factory configuration look like some sort of brain fart designed expressly to heat soak.
Does it have to be a turn-key kit, or is fabrication from piece-parts acceptable? Though my FD is a single turbo, I had exactly the same criteria as you - retain full size battery up front, A/C, PS, etc., and I opted for the latter route. Basically I replicated the old M2 "medium" IC kit, putting the largest IC core I can fit in a stock mount configuration location with some custom fabricated ducting to provide the IC a dedicated supply of cold air, and built some cold air duct work to provide the air filter on my turbo a separate dedicated supply of cold air. Some details on my build thread here: https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...oject-1149941/
As far as IATs go, it works rather well on the street - as long as the car is moving, IATs rarely go much beyond +20*F above ambient air temps.
Honestly, the PWR is probably the way to go for you. The JP3 PC680 kit doesn't work with the Ver2 GReddy VMIC kit. Additionally, the JP3 kit was designed without keeping the AC in mind. Can it be kept, they say yes, but it was not possible without a lot of custom fabrication. The fact that you do not want to relocate your battery and plan to run a factory style radiator setup leads you to the only rational choice, the PWR. Cars in Australia and New Zealand run U-type ICs without any issue and make the power you are wanting. You'll always be plagued with heatsoak with an SMIC, but it will still perform far better than the factory unit. Also spend the money and time to get a fast acting IAT sensor.
As an HKS v-mount owner, i would not recommend it.
there are other kits out there.
the greddy SMIC is a decent option that allows you to retain everything . for your power goals you are pretty much set
i dont know if they still make it. i dont see on the greddy website but they pop up used from time to time
Honestly, the PWR is probably the way to go for you. The JP3 PC680 kit doesn't work with the Ver2 GReddy VMIC kit. Additionally, the JP3 kit was designed without keeping the AC in mind. Can it be kept, they say yes, but it was not possible without a lot of custom fabrication. The fact that you do not want to relocate your battery and plan to run a factory style radiator setup leads you to the only rational choice, the PWR.
That's my understanding as well. Here is the quoted text from JP3's PC680 kit:
This kit is suited to fit an Odyssey PC680 battery or a battery with similar dimensions. Our test car does not have AC, therefore we cannot guarantee this will work with a car running both the Greddy VMIC and AC. However, there should be room for a dryer and lines (would likely require custom lines).
Does it have to be a turn-key kit, or is fabrication from piece-parts acceptable? Though my FD is a single turbo, I had exactly the same criteria as you - retain full size battery up front, A/C, PS, etc., and I opted for the latter route. Basically I replicated the old M2 "medium" IC kit, putting the largest IC core I can fit in a stock mount configuration location with some custom fabricated ducting to provide the IC a dedicated supply of cold air, and built some cold air duct work to provide the air filter on my turbo a separate dedicated supply of cold air. Some details on my build thread here: https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...oject-1149941/
As far as IATs go, it works rather well on the street - as long as the car is moving, IATs rarely go much beyond +20*F above ambient air temps.
Thanks. I follow your build thread. While your setup is great, it is wayyy more fabrication than I am capable of or want to do.
As an HKS v-mount owner, i would not recommend it.
there are other kits out there.
the greddy SMIC is a decent option that allows you to retain everything . for your power goals you are pretty much set
i dont know if they still make it. i dont see on the greddy website but they pop up used from time to time
Why do you not recommend the HKS kit? I would be all about the greddy SMIC, but it has been long discontinued and used ones are usually in rough shape and/or missing the duct
Does the JP3 battery kit work with twins? If not then SMIC is your only option. On top of that if you want one that can be order new there aren't that many choices, otherwise I would say M2 medium + AI and be done with. All SMIC is going to get heat soak so they all going to be the same, especially if you live in warm climate places. I would add AI for some safely measure if you are going to autocross, and/or have to deal with traffic on a hot day.
Why do you not recommend the HKS kit? I would be all about the greddy SMIC, but it has been long discontinued and used ones are usually in rough shape and/or missing the duct
as you first said, the very low hanging fans is a major problem. There are 2 types of owners, the ones who smacked them and the ones who haven't smacked them yet. i have yet to meet someone who has had it for 6 months (And drives the car) and hasn't smacked them yet.
As for the fan mounting brackets, they may work but that's a poor solution for something that costs so much.
the kit is made for a RHD car. if you are mounting it on the LHD with the intention of maintaining the air condition, GOOD LUCK.! you will need new lines and fittings etc.
the battery tray is heavy and the fuse box mounts on it. The wiring is stretched to mount the fusebox on the battery tray. if you ever decide to relocate the battery in the back, your fuseboxes will sort of hang there. I suppose that's a universal problem if you relocate the battery.
the intercooler itself is not as beefy as it looks
the radiator size can be a problem if you get a thick one (unless you go with a koyo stock sized/ N-flow radiator)
to hook up the fans, as per the HKS manual, you have to extend the wiring. As far as i know greddy sells extensions. It wouldnt have cost too much for hks to include a set (or offer them for purchase)
I did receive some criticism on my approach to fix all these issues. I did fix the issues but that was not easy or cheap.
I am not interested in getting in another pissing match about the HKS V-mount. People will often voice their opinions even if they have never seen one before.
As for the Greddy Stock mount intercooler. i was just checking Ari's Website (rx7.com) it still lists it there. its worth a phonecall. Ari is a super nice guy https://rx7.com/store/rx7/fdintercooler.html
For your needs I would put a wanted add up and check Facebook marketplace. Granted I have seen stuff like you described, missing a duct or another part etc. etc. Sometimes there are really great deals on there though, it might surprise you. If you’re only interested in new I totally get that, but sometimes there’s a diamond in the rough. For instance just the other day there was a nice Set up that would fit your needs perfectly here in the marketplace. https://www.rx7club.com/market/1155767
For what it’s worth, I run a crooked Willow racing smic on my single and twin turbo car. It did require relocating the battery which is outside your requirement. I only see 8 to 10° over ambient unless it’s sitting there in traffic or totally stopped heat soaking. But any intercooler will do that eventually. That pwr is an attractive kit. You get what you pay for and sometimes biting the bullet for a quality lasting piece is totally worth it.
The Blitz SMIC retains everything, including the crossover duct. I painted mine black for even more stealthiness from the Smog guy.
(old pic, the engine bay has been cleaned up. )
The Blitz SMIC retains everything, including the crossover duct. I painted mine black for even more stealthiness from the Smog guy.
(old pic, the engine bay has been cleaned up. )
+1 on the Blitz if you want to keep the OEM battery box and all the other OE parts:
PWR also makes a real nice AST out of aluminum in the OEM shape:
Out of production but if one happens to come up FS there’s the PFS. I would only consider the full kit…IC, duct and intake. It satisfies your requirements…including full size battery and I’ve seen really clean looking examples for less than half the PWR price. The downside I’ve dealt with is that stock, the intake sources air from the duct like OEM, but I did a cheap bastard style mod that cured that. Respectable IATs in the Midwest heat and the integral heavy cast inlet would make a great spot for an AI nozzle.
I also own the HKS V-Mount Kit . Whether or not I recommend it, probably not for most ppl (definitely not unless you're going single) but I personally believe it's the best kit you can buy off the shelf...only 2nd to custom built V-mounts.
Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7
as you first said, the very low hanging fans is a major problem. There are 2 types of owners, the ones who smacked them and the ones who haven't smacked them yet. i have yet to meet someone who has had it for 6 months (And drives the car) and hasn't smacked them yet.
As for the fan mounting brackets, they may work but that's a poor solution for something that costs so much.
This is absolutely 100% correct. I smacked mine in my driveway, then again at work resulting in having to get a second set of fans...and Greddy fan wire extensions.
Why don't you just get a stock mount IC? If you have no desire to go over 350, then I see no point in spending the extra money required for a V-mount kit. Having a good radiator and proper ducting will help you keep the temp in check, so save yourself the hassle and get yourself a stock mount IC. Petit is another option if you haven't looked into it.
I also own the HKS V-Mount Kit . Whether or not I recommend it, probably not for most ppl (definitely not unless you're going single) but I personally believe it's the best kit you can buy off the shelf...only 2nd to custom built V-mounts.
This is absolutely 100% correct. I smacked mine in my driveway, then again at work resulting in having to get a second set of fans...and Greddy fan wire extensions.
Why don't you just get a stock mount IC? If you have no desire to go over 350, then I see no point in spending the extra money required for a V-mount kit. Having a good radiator and proper ducting will help you keep the temp in check, so save yourself the hassle and get yourself a stock mount IC. Petit is another option if you haven't looked into it.
Appreciate the insight. As I read more replies I am starting to lean towards the PWR SMIC. My thoughts in going with a V mount were to over build the car and make it future proof. Maybe I also do not realize how much/little cooling I need.
he Petit requires relocating the battery, so it is off the table for me.
I'm pretty sure i have Greddy SMIC in the CYM and CW and like it but the PWR is nice. I would sell the Greddy if you are interested. Dont have a price in mind but would give you a good deal.
02-25-22, 09:11 AM
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