I have been looking into replacing my FMIC with something more efficient.

I am inspired by the pictures of this car... does anyone have engine bay shots of it?





This is a diagram of what I want to do. (Hedgehog I used a picture I had of your car to draw on, hope you don't mind)


The IC would sit flat and the radiator would sit flat on top of it. I would make duct work so that the air could only go through both IC and Rad and then out a hole in the hood like above.

Questions:

I can get a custom FMIC so that will fit. Will a koyo fit flat?

If not can I go with something not as wide but thicker and get the same cooling?

Would the Rad on top of the IC make it too hot?

With so much air flow would this be better than a v mount?

 

No offense but that is a terrible idea. It will perform much worse than a normal stock mount.

 

Haha. No offense taken. I posted it here to get opinions about how or why it would work good or bad. Could you explain to me how it will perform?

 

i would say that routing the air all the way up there and having your i/c and radiator a lot closer to the very hot engine and turbo would be a bad idea. plus, unless you have vents above the radiator in the hood, the airflow is going to be messed up with little room for it to go. whats wrong with the front mount?

 

Worse than either a SMIC or FMIC. You're not only forcing the airflow to travel through two heat exchanger cores (slowing airflow drastically), but you're also forcing the airflow to change course before it has to go through both cores, killing efficiency even more.

 

prew, man don't change what you got. I don't know about all the performance good and bad of doing what you are wanting to do but I just got in my GReddy FMIC because (1) I needed one and (2) I love the way your FD looks from the front! Your sig pic is my desktop background. Leave it be man...just leave it be.

 

I think you guys need to get some sleep. First of all, moving the intercooler up where? The spot he is talking about is about in the same area as a SMIC. All he's talking about is changing the angle of the IC so that it's facing down. It's not adding on more piping, like most FMICs do, so there wouldn't be much of a pressure drop. As far as the front of the car scooping in air and forcing it out through the hood vent, how is that any different from what a duct does? Considering the amount of air you'd be moving, I think it'd be hard to not flow enough air through both the IC and the radiator. But I don't think any of us could speculate on how it would flow without access to a wind tunnel and some other cool gadgetry. With proper ducting on the sides and infront of the engine to direct flow, I'm sure that it wouldn't be a terrible idea. The only way it would be terrible was if there was nowhere for the air to go, say, like a SMIC that has to flow air around and under the engine, accessories, and hoses. The one major problem I see is having to fabricate everything to actually make this stuff fit. Other than that, I don't really see too many faults with the idea.

 

This may, or may not be worse than a SMIC or FMIC, but it definitely could not be better enough to merit re-inventing the wheel. Lord knows, a well ducted VMIC would blow this design out of the water.

 

I have engine pics of a similar setup in my Hyper rev RX7 magazine

Vol 72. page 27...

the car is made by Axia

there's also a nice one from Panspeed with a totally flat IC setup as well

but i don't have a scanner...

But I can take a pic if u really want

it seems pretty effective...they rely on there reverse venting of the hood

and have alot of ducting in the engine bay isolating the IC from the motor so the air goes up and out

 

That would be our race car. It' has a Vmount and I must agree with Goodfellas,

Your idea is bad. it's just copying the OEM system/problem to another location.

The location you indicate will also not allow a OEM size rad to fit

 

I agree, bad Idea.

I'm not sure where your anticipation of increased flow comes from. X amount of air will still flow into the nose opening, and then will need to go through the IC and then the rad, just like your front mount, and then exit just like it does now.

You don't necessarily need your IC/rad exit to be up near the hood vent in order for air to fow out through it. Air will find the path of least resistence, so when pumped into a space, it'll find the exit hole. It's more important to get a nice clean angle of attack in front of the heat exchangers.

 

aha, Speedworks, i was wondering about the dual intakes in the turn signals on the first pic. is the twin intake really that much more of an increase over a single? if im seeing this right, you have ducting running from the turn signals, back to the turbo and meeting right there?

 

The difference is that he's putting another core directly behind the IC (unlike a SMIC), which effectively increases core thickness, killing off airflow speed.
With regards to a SMIC, see above.
The "engine, accessories, and hoses" aren't directly behind a SMIC. There's plenty of space behind the SMIC core inside the engine compartment for airflow to expand and flow around.

While a FMIC isn't the greatest setup for radiator airflow, at least as far as the IC is concerned, it's getting direct airflow. The thicker the effective the core is, the more difficult it is to coax airflow to want to go through it. All the Japanese speed shop cars with horizontal-mount ICs don't have a radiator pancaked above or below it.

All this does is create a lot of fabrication work for what amounts to relocation of some of a FMIC's issues. If you're going to go through all this trouble, why not just go with a V-mount, so that you aren't compromising flow through either heat exchanger?

 

I'm not convinced it is a bad idea. I don't quite understand the comments on the radiator laying flat, but I have a set-up that uses a Horizontal mount and it works fantastic... I would not recommend it to anyone simply because it is reinventing the wheel (but it was fun doing it). Here's what I did:

1. Using the widefoot sway bar mounts and a re-designed rad mount, I shifted the rad towards the firewall by a little over one inch. I also shifted it a little less than one inch towards the drivers side. This left an opening in the nose of the car (where the stock ic duct would normally go) that was a full inch taller (about 4 inches or more). It also left a larger hole for the airbox.

2. I lifted the intercooler crossmember brace by 1.5inches to meet flush with the frame rails

3. I made a "nose" duct (way bigger than stock becuase of the additional space in the opening) that attaches to the bumper supports, clears the bumper reinforcement, and mates to the radiator.

4. I made an intercooler duct that drops onto the raised ic crossmember, and mates to the "nose duct".

5. I got a panspeed hood and modified the opening so that it mates to the tope of the ic core (still a prototype, but works).

What you end up with is airflow that has no option but to enter the nose, through the core and out the hood. I have to believe that it works for the following reasons:

1. When it rains, the water will crest the hood opening and accelerate (up) as it hits the IC opening.
2. I found many dead bugs stuck to the fins of the IC (I've never seen that before on my stock location set ups).

So - too much work maybe, but works in my case.

If anyone is interested I could post some pics in the next day or so.

MCF

 

Hy Manveru,

the dual intake has now been changed in to a sinle one. The filter sits now in the bend-down section of the hood behind the intercooler. It's still not optimal in my opinion and I suggested to route the intake tubing on the side of the IC and Rad so it gets fresh air before air goes through the IC and rad

 

I think the idea has its merrits and faults. As some1 said..a perectly ducted vmount would be best. Incorporating a large opening in the bumper and good exit point for both the inteercoller like the hood in the pics and one for the radiator as well.

 

+1 to horrible idea. having the radiator behind the intercooler is just the same as a FMIC.. except this one is worse than a FMIC setup because re-directed air looses a lot of its force. whole reason for SMIC and VMIC is for the radiator to get fresh/cool air

 

in any case, if you take the leap to change it by this far you better do a decent v mount from the start.

 

I'd like to see some pics. My issue isnt with the horizontal IC...that fine along as you duct for air flow thru it..hi pressure going into it.. and low pressure causing suction behind it..which is what you are doing. My prob it go put the radiator there as well, thats just mucking up the flow, do the same for the radiator at the bottom and you have a perfect system..thats what i wanna aim for