suprfast

im in there digging around trying to change my OMP lines and see that there is not any room for anything. ive been down there a few times and one major time to do all the hoses with silicon ones. im really really thinking about going non-seq right now just for the ease of operation. seems like my car breaks atleast once a month and i have to pull the UIM off and dig around down there cause its new oil leaking or something of the sort. i just dont want the lag until 4K rpms. so many decisions. time to do some searching about the non-seq and see if i really want it. quick question, does anyone run non-seq while road racing. im an avid autoXer and i know that my low end will suffer dramatically but i think i am about to graduate to road racing. autoxes are just not long enough.
kris

Dr. Strange

To be honest, you barely even notice the lag.

suprfast

i need to search more, but i cant find any dyno sheets comparing the two. does anyone have anything showing seq vs. non. i just want to see where power comes on.
kris

Scorpio

I have the seq vs non-seq comparison page from Fritz McKellar's old site. You can check it out at:

http://www.micromanx.com/goble/rx7/p...3/compare.html

In my experience, it's not necessarily that there's a bunch more lag with non-seq...it's more like the boost builds more slowly from low rpms.

I am full non-seq and I find that (in my car) 1st gear is just as useless as it was when I was stock-seq (ie, instant wheel-spin). 2nd gear spools up almost as quickly as stock-seq, but not quite.

My advice is always to try to ride/drive a non-seq car if you can before you make your final decision.

mmonaco

When you guys ported your wastegate what bit did you use?
Marc

RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

I wanna go non-seq!

HeX

I'm somehow very intrigued and hopeful about those new BNR's. Hope they deliver.

-HeX

vudoodoodoo

I did the non-seq setup just for one reason, simplification. I was putting my motor back together and changing all the hoses to silicon ones. I got pissed off and decided to go non-seq. It's not that big of a mess in there anymore.
The lag isn't even that noticable.

artguy

bullshit!!!! the lag is totally noticable.

read the thread on the 460rwhp on the bnr turbos...the most recent one.

there are a couple pro racers in there that discuss it.

again..the lag is TOTALLY noticable. I might run non seq if i lived out of the city.

but as far as autox you will have little response out of the turns.

non seq is for the drag strips homies...and yall know it.



jason

ps..you can try running the poormans version to get a basic idea of what its like. if you are an autoxer then you are like me in a way...you want your power NOW and you want it as soon as you can get it. In my case I live in the crowded city and rarely drive in the upper rpms and in your case you need it as soon as you come out of a turn.

rx7raca

when are they fully spooled up? i swear when ur in autox u are in the higher rpms, ur not gonna be goin around turns in 2 or 3 k are u? i thought i heard somethin about how they spool up fully by 3.5 to like 4k...im not sure tho
geoff

Dr. Strange

Artguy,
Please tell me who in the hell stays in the lower rpms with a RX-7. C'mon people the rotary motor was built for high rpms and that is where they perform best. NON-SEQ has the same lag as a T-78 so anyone plan on going single turbo should give non-seq a try IMO. Also the torque is alot more noticable in the car aswell. Going full Non-Seq gets rid of all the CRAP under the UIM and you never worry about boost transition problems and spikes. Try the poor man version of non-seq @ www.dontbearikki.com. Rikki has done the full non-seq and gets over 355HP out of those twins and has had no problems to date.


Thank you the Doctor has spoken

suprfast

that is 355 WHP with the special porting sauce and also ran an 11.7 on full out SLICKS. CAR 53 runs an 11.8 with sesquential twins on ET streets at 12psi. i kinda favor the sesquential but cant stand the complication of them. i have to piece everything back together of the next few days since i am changing the OMP lines and must take out the rats nest. i didnt think that the mod was that easy but it appears to be more complicated than i expected. i too am on of the autoXers and need the low end. sometimes there just isnt enough time to downshift on a course and its easier to just leave it in second. from 2K to full boost seems like an eternity when hundreths of a seconds is a matter of winning and losing class
KRIS
2002 ASP winner fresno chapter
2002 Rookie of the year fresno chapter

artguy

it was also 355 rwhp UNCORRECTED....right? so in actuality it was more toward 335...and his run was on slicks. pull a half second off right there to know what he is actually running.

but that is besides the point...ive ran non seq...dont tell me that it doesnt have lag....you hit it and wait. period. I get 16lbs by 2800 rpms...dont tell me that that is not usable power range. I have good power down low and I wouldnt give it up for 20 more hp in the midrange. ever.

I dont like getting beat at the go...if i wanted a laggy car Id have gone with big turbo supra. The rx7 is fun to me because of the response and light weight. I did my streetport and lost some of that initial low end torque. I had to go with the m2 ball bearing twins to get it back.

streetability takes a big hit with non seq. that is the truth.

highway driving on non seq is a blast...smiles..lots of smiles....but i rarely drive on the highway.

rikkis car is a drag track car now...not an autox or street car.

the simplicity of non seq is nice...cant argue with that....but I prefer my low end streetability to simplicity under the hood.


j

artguy

btw...non seq is as laggy as a t78...sure...the only problem is that non seq will get ya over 300 hp and the t78 gets ya 450+



no thanks

Dr. Strange

Actually he runs ET Streets not full slicks. And his Dyno was Standard correction. Also to note the correction factor does not gain but a few hp not 20 hp.

And he has done all this with out running high boost. Did anyone forget about the video of the dyno. There is your proof. He runs 11 psi or so. not 15 or 16 like all the other guys and his runs are in dead heat of summer. Track temps over a 100 degrees. These guys here as of late have been getting good times and it has to do a little with cooler weather. Dont try and argue that.

Doctor

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

It ain't broke, don't fix it. If its broke, throw it out the window!

If you do a search, you'll find that non-seq, realy is'nt all that bad. We touched apon this when we compared my non-seq twins to capt bills upgraded m2 twins. By something like 3,600 rpms, I was allready ahead of him in torque and hp.

If you want anouther comparison:

My FD with a down pipe and Racing Beat intake (removed for the m2 unit i have now.) put down 233.1hp@6,500, and 205.7ftlbs@5250 with a boost pattern of 11-14-12 while running running seq mode. Now with my mod list I have now, minus the HI-6, I made that power by 4k rpms, and that HP by 3,600 running non-seq. I feel that if I where to race a stock FD from 3k rpms to 7k rpms, I'd put money on it that I'd win. Keep in mind that my car is pretty much untuned too.

If you want instant power, non-seq is'nt for you. If you don't mind waiting until 3,600-4000 then non-seq realy is alot nicer to drive. And its not that its "laggy", its just that it takes more time to build max boost. I mean I see positive manifold pressure by less than 2,300rpms.

Try the poor mans non-seq first. If you like it, and wanna do the full version, expect to build boost by 500rpms earlier.

You guys have to understand, Artguy spent 3k+ plus on his turbos...he has to defend them.

CJ

Anouther option is the new BNR's. But i'm gonna wait until I see a dyno sheet before I commit to something like them.

suprfast

well i was really leaning towards the gt35/40 for simplicity, spool, and HP. i want to wait and see what the BNR's will do first. i would love to have a stock looking setup making over 400hp. should be enough for me. we just saw the 35/40 almost make 500hp. i would like a comparsion between the 35/40 and the new BNR's.
kris

jspecracer7

I LOVED having the low end power of the stock sequential system, but I Hated having boost problems, and having to attach tons of hoses. Once I went non-sequential, I noticed the power loss down low right away...but at the same time, it paid for it self hundreds of times over when I had to work on anything underneath the UIM.

kwikrx7

Non-sequential is definitely something to get used to. A non-seq FD is not as streetable as a seq FD. I've had seq for 3 years and non-seq for 2 on stock turbos and it's just a totally different driving style. When it came to racing, I loved non-seq. I never lost - even to a BPU+ Supra on the highway 60-120. You don't gain any peak hp with non-seq - just a gain in torque and hp in the midrange (4K-6K rpms) - and that's only the full conversion which I had. I'm back to sequential running upgraded twins because I like the feeling of a sequential FD - just my 2 cents.

For those who don't want to fuss with the entire rat's nest there is a sequential simplification setup on rx7turboturbo.com that eliminates alot of the bullcrap.

Also for those who must be non-seq but don't want lag - Bryan at BNR will be doing his "secret weapon" technology to his stock rebuilds also. That would basically eliminate all lag found with non-seq since you'd still be running the stock compressor wheels - it would probably spool just about as fast as stock sequential - something to think about and keep watch for from BNR

artguy

PP13BNOS: honestly though you cant compare your car which is running fine vs his which is limping around in comparison to where it should be.

bill should be sitting at 350 hp at 14-15lbs or so on his twins....and his motor is stock. why dont you compare your cars sheets to gregs m2 set. gregs car is running fine...bills car is not. both of those cars are capable of running MUCH more boost and much more power. yours is peaked unless you go with another set of turbos or ported your motor.

****..if i compared my car to my pals machine with a blown motor Id get him in all range of the rpm band. get my point?

rikki has a huge port job...that in conjunction with the non seq makes his car killer in the qtr mile but I have seen his dyno sheets and the power comes on LATE. (the agressive porting) Drop the clutch and he must be flying...punch it on the street under normal driving conditions and enjoy the wait....LAG...you can see it on the dyno sheets.

compare his sheets to gregs m2 sheets in the upgrade twins thread. be aware that greg is running his turbos on the bottom end of the range he should be running. His sheets would look a lot better if he were further in the efficiency range ....regardless they look pretty damn good to me.

I dont have to defend my 3k turbos. I have raced a few non seq rx7s and i get them by one-two-and even three car lengths immediately...then they were able to hang a bit...but ask goracer (he has a sweet non seq rx with a grip of mods)...hes knows exactly what i am talking about.

I like a car that jumps off the line....without having to drop the damn clutch. thats how i drive around town...zoom zoom zoom...i prefer to keep my clutch and keep my tires too.

but like i said...im sure your car and all the non seq cars are a blast on the dragstrip or on the highway.

that is just not the kind of driving i do on a daily basis.


jason

artguy

on a final note....i did enjoy non seq...the only prob was that to enjoy it i found that i was speeding every single time i was smiling with exhileration. I like smiling when i am not speeding too.

mmonaco

Talking about non seq did any of you guys do your own port job on the wastegate? I am doing mine, and the door just covers the hole, is this right or do i want the hole a little bigger than the door? Thanks
Marc

Marshall

mmonaco, be sure to smooth all of the edges around the wg area. Instead of 90 degree "cuts" as they were cast, try to raidus them a bit. Shape is just as important as size here!

Here is a spreadsheet of Greg's M2 bb run (15 psi w/hfc) and my stock Non seq stock motor run (14 psi w/mp). Its not gospel but it will give you an idea as to what the power curves looks like for each setup. You can draw your own conclusions as both have their advantages.

artguy

great spread...your car is a sweet one marshall.

the m2 set is very balanced throughout...the thing that was interesting to me is that he is on a stock motor and the power did not tail off like it was a stock motor..the power up top was still pulling...I wish he would do a 19 lb run so we can see these things screaming.

the non seq chart you posted...holy crap does it kick in the middle...the seq set gets the jump pretty good at first and then its play catch up until he would eventually pass you as his power is still there up top.

thanks for that...if you are looking for that blast in the back...marshalls charts prove that non seq will give you that...if you are looking for balance and power throughout (including all the way up top) then seq m2 works out well.

he needs to be on a midpipe though...greg is choking his car with that cat...i was running a cat on mine and the max boost i could push was 15lbs. I opened it up and the machine woke up....it could breathe.


j

artguy

for those who want to see a dyno chart from a basically stock c5 so they can compare v8 numbers against either of the above charts...here ya go


http://www.yellowc5.com/images/c5dyno2.jpg


this c5 has k&n filters...thats it.