Sonny

We all know that the "chipped" ECU's like the M2, G-Force, Pettit, etc. run on the rich side. The ignition amps seem to help overcome some of the excessive richness seen in these ECUs.

Since the PFC gives you the ability to tune things more accurately, do you PFC guys still use an ignition amp?

I have an M2 Stage 3 and if I add in the cost of an HKS Twin Power, I'm almost right at the point of being able to afford a used PFC.

Thanks,
Sonny

vspecpgt

i've got the twin power and the pfc.... works good for me... steve kan tuned my car so........

RX794

I've got the HKS Twin Power also.

wReX

iTrader: (6)

I'm running an MSD 6A with my PFC. There's only so much the stock ignition sys can do so the MSD helps a lot. You should dump the M2 ecu in favor for the PFC irregardless

Sparkey

Ive heard and I have no idea about these sort of things but I heard that the aem ignition box is alot better than the twin power. Dont know about it though so please dont ask.

SBi_Owner

There are alot of cars that run high flow injectors, fuel computers and 15=psi boost with stock ignition systems. If you feel you need to upgrade, then do it. I would run the car with a wideband and see how the AFR's are and where you need to be. If you can't make enough adj. via the fuel computer then you look into ognition.

CCarlisi

I have a pfc and just purchased an AEM box. I plan on replacing the stock ignitor/amp with the AEM. With the stock system my car was breaking up at high rpm at 14lbs of boost with afrs right around 11. I could probably get rid of the break up by running a leaner mixture, but frankly I'd rather add an amp and tune it on the rich side. Excess fuel is not the most cost-effective way to cool the combustion chamber, but it does seem to work

re Twinpower vs AEM:
I think the decision is still out on that. The AEM is a straight CDI while the twinpower is a transistorized ignition AND CDI box in one. The transistor section extends the duration that the spark is lite. The CDI segment of the box increases the intensity of the spark, just as the AEM box does. Since the Twinpower seems to be the only box that people consistently pick up mid range power with and, aside from the electromotive ignition, is the only box I'm aware of that uses a transistor-type system, I believe the transistor section is responsible for the power increase.

The FAQ section of the Electromotive page addresses this to some extent.
"According to the BOSCH automotive handbook 3rd edition...
Page 460... "The major advantage of the CDI is that it generally remains impervious to electrical shunts in the high voltage ignition circuit, especially those due to spark-plug contamination. For many applications the spark duration of 0.1 ... 0.3 ms is too brief to ensure that the air-fuel mixture will ignite reliably. Thus CDI is only designed for specific types of engine, and today its use is restricted to a few applications only, as transistorized ignition systems have virtually the same performance. CDI is not suited for aftermarket installations."

A famous RX7 tuner recently suggested the twinpower is a relatively weak CDI, noting that, unlike most of the other boxes, it does not have its own dedicated power supply. I am not in a position to say if he is right or not, but if he is correct it again suggests that the transistorized portion of the box is what is really responsible for the gains.

I have also heard that an ignition capacitor that operates like the one found in the twinpower can be assembled with off the shelf radio shack parts at a very reasonable cost. Adding such a system to the AEM might be a very effective combination-or maybe it will burn out the coils faster than anything else on the planet :-p

jspecracer7

I'm getting slightly better gas mileage from the twinpower to AEM switch(appx. 10 to 20 km more per tank of gas). I plan to upgrade coils here in the near future as well...22 psi here I come

HKS SpiritR

I have been using twin power for over a year now. So far so good. Don't know if i actually gain power though.

cruiser

I'm beginning to think that HKS TP is only a band aid on the stock ignition which is in bad state. What makes me believe it may be so ? Some people have no problem running up to 16psi on stock ignition, yet some (like me) struggle when trying to go over 12psi.

It can be something as simple as plugs, plug wires, bad grounds, bad coil harness or bad coild. What do you think ? Did I miss out something ?

artguy

no cruiser you are right....the stock ignition is fine for some peeps. I pushed 17psi on mine. I upgraded to the aem to clear up some breakup and chatter in the upper rpm's on the dyno sheets. aem was a good budget decision...but wiring it is a pain in the neck...if you do not wrap all the wires you can end up with a short somewhere which will stall out the vehicle. Lesson learned. Wrap all wiring and solder all connections. J

matty

i have pfc (15psi) with no amp and i get break up in the upper rpm range even with new plugs. I want to upgrade but fuinds are tight right now.

SleepR1

HKS Twin Power. Without it, I had high rpm ignition break up at 15 psi boost levels.

cruiser

Did any of you guys replace plugs, grounds and plug wires before going with amplifier in order to fix the high RPM hesitation?

P.S.: Can the coil only work with half the strength or is it either working or not working at all ?

matty

yes...i did 30k mile service which included changing the plugs and wires. Then i dyno tuned in 1 bar of boost. I made 340 rwhp and i am breaking up in upper rpm range.

cruiser

matty, maybe it would be worth to replace the grounds also. At least the UIM and neg. battery cable one.

HedgeHog

Running B&M New Volt since 2001. It works on the supply side not the trigger side.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Running an old school Jacobs with an FC leading coil. Works great, and consistently ran well at 17 psi on my old BNRs. No breakup at all, and this was running very rich.

matty

hey rich why dont u pose the Q to Steve kan real quick?
How come it seems some people dont get break up while some do @ 15ps?. Doesnt make sense to me. I would think it would be one of two things....1) poor tunning (most people do get tuned) or 2) poor ignition componets (i replaced plugs and wires).

Whats his take....do people with all the boltons and 15psi need to upograde or is it something else?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I'm not at the shop right now and can't ask steve, you can always call the shop to talk to him, I'm sure he wouldnt mind

My take---with all the bolts ons and 15psi on stock twins, an amp is not needed if you have a properly working stock ignition system. I have a feeling most of us don't though. Hell, I saw Ihor "The Master of Disaster" Huk lay down 470 to the wheels with stock ignition (race plugs only difference) at 20 psi on his gt35/40 with my own eyes.

Having said that, a lot of people run an amp b/c of the benefirs derived. It's 'want' vs 'need'

Rich

CCarlisi

Again, the key is the air-fuel ratio. The leaner it is the easier it is to ignite. Those of you that are posting your experiences please also tell us what your AFRs were like.

matty

Wow your example definately sheds some light. i wonder if my ignition tunning isnt all that great.

I did have a brief conversation with steve awhile back (1 or 2 yrs ago) about ignitions. Not this much detail though. If i remeber correctly he said its good purchase. Anyways, I just moved into a bigger house and have been remodeling so the Fd is lower on my priority list right now...although it would be great to clean up the upper rpm range.

matty

11.x tunned by kdr

all the boltons, 1300cc inj, 1 bar of boost.

cruiser

I think the difference is in the condition of everyones ignition system - this includes plugs, plug wires, grounds, coils and coil harness. I also heard of subcoil, but I dont know what that is

But breakup at high RPM can be attributed to either or both of - rich AFRs and bad spark (for the AFRs).

I'm replacing my original plug wires at 80k miles with new original ones and will replace 2 or 3 grounds also this weekend (still thinking if I should also replace 7/9 plugs with 1500miles on them with new 9/9).

matty

my car had 30k miles when i was first tuned and as i said earlier new sparks and wires. Also if your wires are shot why would gettign a better amp hide that. if they cant carry the current they cant carry the current (speculation). Everyone that gets the amp reports a cleaner acceleration with no breakup.