Kraziken

Hello,

Former FD owner, and I miss my car.

I did a search and either found nothing or a bazillion hits so here goes.

I'm considering picking up another one as a Sunday car, possibly track car.

I know running a car on the track is pretty punishing. If I do get another 7, it would probably sit in my garage until I could complete all the recommended reliability mods.

I'm just wondering if anyone has experience in this area, and if they saw dramatically increased problems with their car running it either in autocross or road coarses. I'd like to do some bpu mods, nothing crazy, but I'm wondering if it's best to leave it as stock as possible if I do want to track the car.

I've considered doing upgrades on my Lexus IS300 to run on the track, but to be honest, it's so nice I don't want to rough handle her.

radkins

I track my FD often, and in my opinion if you car is in good shape tracking it will not hurt it a bit. If it has probles, tracking it will definitely bring those problems out. SleepR1 put tens of thousands of track miles on his FD and got well over 100K on engine and turbos before they both died a natural death.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=136678

SleepR1

Mahjik, that original post brings me back--27 Nov 02?! I've done another 15 days of track since that time LOL.

Kraziken, read every single post on that thread. It's a good one, and you might learn something LOL. All the FD experts gave me their input. I didn't necessarily take their advice (I went FMIC instead of SMIC), but gathering their knowledge is worth the time!

My current setup is working very well. KDR motor has over 16,000 miles. RWHP output is 370 with 16 psi boost from the '99 Type RS J-spec sequential twins.

Out on the road course with 12 psi boost, there aren't very many drivers/cars that can keep up (@ Putnam Park Road Course) LOL.

It was a long road to get to where my car is now, but the results are definitely worth it!

radkins, I'm going to pass the Indy FD Rx7 Track Junkie mantle to you, LOL. Keep up the great driving!

Best of luck with your project, Kraziken!

HeatTreated

few things I would do before running,
-Fan Mod (keep it on while running)
-Pre Mix (make sure your engines getting lubed)
-Add Water Temp gauge (or linearize the stock one)
-Boost Control the boost down to 8psi on stock IC (dont really need more than 10psi w/ mods from what Ive found)
-Fill up on (good) gas
-----------------------------
Oh and Racing Slicks will make you shine like you cant believe!

rynberg

Actually, from my track day experience in Cali, you don't want to track a completely stock car. You'll want:

*dual oil coolers, OEM or aftermarket
*upgraded radiator
*pull a/c relay and run fans at HIGH
*race pads or bigger brakes
*boost, water, and oil temp gauges
*bigger intercooler - stock mount
*run 100 octane if they have it at the track

wrankin

I track mine about 2-3 times a year on a roadcourse (VIR). If anything, the need to do a full tech inspection of the car every 4-6 months helps identify and locate all those little problems before they turn into bigger problems. I feel it actually keeps the car in better health overall.

-bill

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with Rynberg on tracking a completely stock FD (partially).

You definitely need an aftermarket water temp gauge to monitor the heat your car is building. On the track, the car is constantly running in the high revs (for the duration of your session) so you are going to be generating a lot more heat than on the street. The ability to monitor this will be invaluable.

You might consider running a heavier oil for the track days. With the extra heat you'll be generating, it's a good idea.

Brake pads really depend on how hard you will be pushing the car. Most street pads won't take a lot of heat and will fade within a few laps of hard running. However, if you are just learning and not pushing too hard, you can get by with some upgraded street pads.

The key is to monitor what's going on with your car. If you begin to develop problems, don't keep running the car. If the temps start to climb, back off but don't stop. Just drive easy to allow fresh air to still enter the engine bay.

cruiser

I would also suggest a DP in the above list of track mods. And some clamps on the MAP sensor and vacuum chamber vacuum lines (regular boosting tends to blow them off - leading to wrong assumptions about the state of your engine and turbos )

Other then that - enjoy.

jramosrx7

I've tracked mine for several years before this last year when I did none. No problems at all, it's mod'd and for sale:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=300665

rynberg

Well, out of my own list, I don't have:

*race pads or bigger brakes
*dual oil coolers -- although I ordered RE's dual 25-row coolers to install in May.

I can tell you that even on a 55F day, I was hitting 250F oil temps. You NEED dual oil coolers for running on the track unless you like cooking motors. The OEM R1/R2 setup is adequate for all but tracking in 90+F heat.

I'm still running Hawk HPS pads on the track, they definitely fade after a few laps, not badly, but any fade at the end of a long straight is a scary thing. I will be getting the 99+ RZ brakes soon, as I don't care to swap race pads in and out.

As far as the intercooler goes, I was hitting upper 40s C intake temps on a 55F day with my PFS SMIC. However, I was also hitting 65C on a 100F day, which is hotter than I like. I hate to think how hot the stock IC would have been. A bigger IC also has less pressure drop, making your turbos work easier -- and cooler.

Kraziken

I guess I was counting on a Koyo radiator, silicone wires, downpipe, oil cooler etc.

Anyone else here feel who drive an FD feel like it is the crack of the sports car world? I haven't owned one in 6 years, but I still come to this message board.

Everything I drive I compare to the FD and they all fall short.

DamonB

In order to track an FD reliably you first must have the car in PRISTINE mechanical condition. This is where the majority of people mess up. If the car can't be driven around town thoughtlessly you sure as hell can't bang its brains out around the track all day without worry. Mods after that are going to be dictated by how hard you're able to drive the car (ability) and how tough the track is on things like brakes and engines.

I love tracking my FD but I'll be the first to tell you that you can track other cars with far less effort. I spend lots of time around racing cars and I know what it takes to keep them going. My car is pretty stock engine wise and there's always something needing done. Keep in mind an FD is a 10+ year old car and that I tend to take care of things before they break, not after.

airborne

i'm surprised to hear so many people mention the fan mod. when you're on the track (not autox) you're generally movin pretty quick so you're already getting good airflow. i remember checkin out a spec rx7 race and there were some 2nd gens in the following race, none were running rad fans. course you'd need em when you came off the track...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Well, I know several people (while they are probably not sure of their oil temps) have been tracking their cars for years with the single stock oil cooler without any problems.

Pad fade will be dictated by the track and by the driver. I had fade on my upgraded street pads pushing the car hard on a 2.1 mile course. However, laying off the straights a little bit keep the pads within their operating temperatures.

This is more a reliabilty thing, not a necessity. While it's always better to upgrade your car to "help it out" (IC, dp, etc), running the stock IC on the track will work just fine. The person may lose a little power near the end of the session as it heats up, but once again, I've know many people to run them without issues on the track.

Bigger oil coolers, radiators, intercoolers are great however not "needed", IMO, for runninng the track. While they do help increase the car's performance, as long as you drive within the car's means, you don't "need" those things (i.e. driving within means, if your pads are fading, don't keep going 150mph down the straight to brake down to 70 at the turn.. slow it down... if the car is heating up, don't keep pushinig hard, slow it down.. stay within the means the car can perform).

Of course, as you get better and want faster lap times (i.e. pushing harder), you'll want to address these other upgrade issues.

rynberg

I agree somewhat with what you are saying, Mahjik, I guess I just get sick of worrying about temps and fade while I'm tracking the car. It's distracting and not very fun when you have to start backing off.

Truly, the only thing you need is a well maintained car and a water temp gauge, but I like to think my list represents items that are very desirable for reliability.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Fans can make a big difference. Last summer I had a long drive home from an autocross in 100 degree temps. I was driving at a steady speed of around 80-85 mph. Turning the fans on dropped my water temps from 200 to 195. Thats not a huge difference at that speed, but the bigger difference (on the track) would be at lower speeds. If you have to slow to 40mph, you no longer have that huge amount of air flowing thru your radiator ........ unless your fans are on.

SleepR1

Therein lies the rub. Once you get good (@ track driving), it's a PITA to disengage in a heated "contest" with a turbo 996 Porsche LOL. It ain't over until you pass the Porsche, make the pass stick all the way until the checkered flags comes out a wavin' signaling the end of the session!

wrankin

I track mine about 2-3 times a year on a roadcourse (VIR). If anything, the need to do a full tech inspection of the car every 4-6 months helps identify and locate all those little problems before they turn into bigger problems. I feel it actually keeps the car in better health overall.

-bill

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

One could write a book on the things that "should" be done to track an FD reliably. Then again ANY car will need mods to be able to track it *reliably*....ANY CAR

And as for the comment regarding tracking an FD with a lone single oil cooler...ever hear the phrase "ignorance is bliss?" Well let me tell you as soon as I installed an oil temp gauge and saw oil temps in the 250+degree range I immediately went with aftermarket dual oil coolers. Saying it's ok is akin to thinking just because "I can" it's also ok. It's also ok to run your car at 15 psi as well but the question then becomes, just how long do you think it will last? This way of thinking, my friends, is why so many rotaries expire early.
Off my soapbox,
Crispy
- original motor, original turbos, and tracked HARD since 1998.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I completely agree. IMO, the brakes are the main place the FD lacks when trying to put it on the track. Most other cars these days you don't necessarily need to use lapping pads. However, you pay for in the initial price of the car (like the Vettes, BMW's, Porsches).

For someone just starting out, I wouldn't recommend going crazy with modifying the car for track use until they become more serious about it.

wrankin

Crispy makes a good point. I'll also point out that I'm guilty of running with a single stock oil cooler.

One thing which has not been mentioned in the list of mods are the all important "safety mods". In a car that is fully capable of 140+mph in the straights in *stock* form, the standard three point seat belts just aint gonna cut it if you go off track and things get ugly (rolling or barrier impact). Good properly installed harnesses are (IMHO) a requirement.

The question of roll-bar installation is not universally agreed on. Personally, I am much more comfortable with good roll-over protection (for the reasons given above). Some people I have seen run without.

Just some thoughts.

-bill

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

While I don't disagree with Crispy, I do believe everyone needs to examine their car just as Crispy did before upgrading their oil cooling system (i.e. install an oil temp gauge).

I don't believe you can just say flat out "if you track your car, you need to do xxxxx". Just like the myth "3 mod rule", everyone needs to see what their car is currently doing before deciding what or if anything needs to be changed.

macdaddy

Majik, I instruct for both Porsche and BMW Club driving schools, and from what I've seen, most new BMW M3s and Porshe 911s still need track pads and brake ducting for a good driver to be able to push the car hard without brake fade in a 30 min session. The 10-year old BMWs and Porsches frequently need "big brake" upgrades, in addition, to accomplish the same thing. I don't think the FD suffers in comparison here.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I agree with "pushing the car hard". However, I was able to achieve fade on upgraded (not lapping) pads without even really pushing my car hard (as it was on my very first event).

I know many Vette, BMW, Porsche (and other various vehicles) owners who don't need to start looking at lapping pads for quite a while. Keep in mind that I'm not saying (nor did I ever say) "they never have to upgrade their pads". Most of it also depends on the track as I said above.