Hmmmmm...question about painting carbon fiber.
12-07-04, 05:57 PM
#1
Hmmmmm...question about painting carbon fiber.
Ok I did't really want to come back here (thanks to all the snobs who have recently sprung up on these forums...) but I need to ask for some help from those who actually are friendly, fellow, FD owners.
A few weeks ago I ran over that armadillo and smashed up the front end. Then I smacked that curb and crumpled my fenders.
I ended up ordering a carbon fiber body kit for it. (Carbon Creations body parts & a Scoot carbon fiber hood) Well, I want to paint all of the parts (except for the hood) to match the factory silver on the car.
I took the car to a local body shop for the repairs. After waiting a month for the parts (thanks rx7store.net......), they finally came. One of the guys at the body shop told me that it would be pretty much pointless to paint the parts because it would look like ****. The Carbon Creations body parts are pretty much two layers: an underside fiberglass composite with carbon fiber overlay on top. The parts then have a clear-coat finish over the carbon fiber. They actually look really nice unpainted, but I want them painted to match the car. This guy at the body shop said that he noticed the clear-coat finish on the body parts had ripples in it and that the ripples would still show if painted (We looked at it, and the ripples are in the layers of clear-coat, not the actual shape of the bumper). He also said that mounting & installing the parts would be near impossible because the body parts did not come with mounting holes pre-drilled. (Yet when we lined-up the parts on the car, they seemed to fit perfect with an even gap around all edges).
Well, we think this is total bullshit. After a good job of sanding off the clear-coat, priming, and painting, shouldn't the painted finish be pretty smooth and ripple-free? Also, I have always known many aftermarket body parts to come un-drilled. We installed a new front end on a friends car the other week and we had to drill all the mounting holes...the bumper fit perfectly in place.
So, is this guy just bullshitting me so he can get the car out of the shop faster, or does this seem like a vaild excuse for not wanting to prep & paint the carbon fiber parts.
I've already done some research around the net, and most people seem to say that you would treat the carbon fiber parts just as if they were fiberglass. Is this true?
Thanks guys.
(by the way, i don't need any "omg dont change the stock body!" flame attempts or crap like that...i bought what i want, because i like it.)
A few weeks ago I ran over that armadillo and smashed up the front end. Then I smacked that curb and crumpled my fenders.
I ended up ordering a carbon fiber body kit for it. (Carbon Creations body parts & a Scoot carbon fiber hood) Well, I want to paint all of the parts (except for the hood) to match the factory silver on the car.I took the car to a local body shop for the repairs. After waiting a month for the parts (thanks rx7store.net......), they finally came. One of the guys at the body shop told me that it would be pretty much pointless to paint the parts because it would look like ****. The Carbon Creations body parts are pretty much two layers: an underside fiberglass composite with carbon fiber overlay on top. The parts then have a clear-coat finish over the carbon fiber. They actually look really nice unpainted, but I want them painted to match the car. This guy at the body shop said that he noticed the clear-coat finish on the body parts had ripples in it and that the ripples would still show if painted (We looked at it, and the ripples are in the layers of clear-coat, not the actual shape of the bumper). He also said that mounting & installing the parts would be near impossible because the body parts did not come with mounting holes pre-drilled. (Yet when we lined-up the parts on the car, they seemed to fit perfect with an even gap around all edges).
Well, we think this is total bullshit. After a good job of sanding off the clear-coat, priming, and painting, shouldn't the painted finish be pretty smooth and ripple-free? Also, I have always known many aftermarket body parts to come un-drilled. We installed a new front end on a friends car the other week and we had to drill all the mounting holes...the bumper fit perfectly in place.
So, is this guy just bullshitting me so he can get the car out of the shop faster, or does this seem like a vaild excuse for not wanting to prep & paint the carbon fiber parts.
I've already done some research around the net, and most people seem to say that you would treat the carbon fiber parts just as if they were fiberglass. Is this true?
Thanks guys.
(by the way, i don't need any "omg dont change the stock body!" flame attempts or crap like that...i bought what i want, because i like it.)
12-07-04, 06:08 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by RX7WEEE
Ya from what i have read it looks like the guy is just trying to get you out of there, go somewhere else!
I agree with RX7WEEE, a friend of mine is a REALLY good body guy and paints carbon fiber every once in a while when someone wants a stock colored c/f hood. If i can get a hold of him (since he's always busy with body work) I'll ask him what proceedures he takes to paint the c/f.
BTW did you notice a big weight difference between the stock and c/f panels? I know the stock hood is damn light but anything worth the money besides the looks and cooling effects?
12-07-04, 06:11 PM
#4
oh yes, the hood was MUCH lighter. im not sure the exact weight difference. i can easily hold up the hood with two fingers. the hood also came with this nice rain-shield that you can put in if it the weather looks crappy outside... you can see it in this pic
same thing with the fenders....the cf ones are much much lighter, but still feel nice and tough. they look similar to the stock fenders, but they have a little more flair to the lip.
heres a pic of one:
same thing with the fenders....the cf ones are much much lighter, but still feel nice and tough. they look similar to the stock fenders, but they have a little more flair to the lip.
heres a pic of one:
Last edited by theorie; 12-07-04 at 06:14 PM.
12-07-04, 06:42 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Enconsiderate
pics of front bumper?
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12-07-04, 07:00 PM
#8
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Why spend the money on CF look body parts and re-paint them. I would think getting fiberglass part would save a lot of money if they charge you for a premium on CF look parts. None the less all CF look parts have just one layer of CF cloth on top of fiberglass panel and it is just for look.
Real CF panels would cost at least 3-4 times. Example is the Mazdaspeed CF hood. It cost about $1000. Just my opinion.
BC
Real CF panels would cost at least 3-4 times. Example is the Mazdaspeed CF hood. It cost about $1000. Just my opinion.
BC
12-07-04, 07:11 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by BC-FD3S
Why spend the money on CF look body parts and re-paint them. I would think getting fiberglass part would save a lot of money if they charge you for a premium on CF look parts. None the less all CF look parts have just one layer of CF cloth on top of fiberglass panel and it is just for look.
Real CF panels would cost at least 3-4 times. Example is the Mazdaspeed CF hood. It cost about $1000. Just my opinion.
BC
Real CF panels would cost at least 3-4 times. Example is the Mazdaspeed CF hood. It cost about $1000. Just my opinion.
BC
That one layer of carbon fiber will out-hold fiberglass like 2 or 3 times. People paint carbon fiber because they dont buy it for looks they buy it because it's a lot stronger then fiberglass, and a lot lighter then other material but don't want the front end looking like it fell into a batch of 3d weave paint (closest thing i can describe c/f to). A lot of people do leave the hood unpainted to bring some contrast to the car but they dont want a whole front end to be mixed match to the rear half.
Opinions are opinions tho. Some may buy carbon fiber just for the looks some buy it for function and others buy it for both. The reason the mazdaspeed is soo much is cause the name. Yes it may be 100% carbon fiber but other brands are 100% carbon fiber also.
To tell you my $.02 I thought carbon creations was 100% c/f, shows ya what i know i guess.
12-07-04, 07:12 PM
#10
CF/Kevlar/Fiberglass planel are a fiber resin composite, all have a resin layer sealing the fibers. CF and Kelvar must use epoxy resin .. the good stuff. Most paints bonds to cured epoxy. I would find another shop, sand out the blems and build a pretty and lighter car. Beauty is what is under the skin. One layer CF and one layer glass is still much lighter that all glass and stiffer too, unless you use three or for layeer of glass.
12-07-04, 07:26 PM
#12
Most body kits are created poorly. He is saying that so you do not complain when it does not come out perfect and body pannels dont line up (protects himself from rework) the isnt alot of money to be made in something like this (there will be a lot of prep work and fitting compated to oem pannels). To answer you questions. you can make it look much better by sanding and primering the parts that are going to be painted, maybe even a skim coat of finishing mud. I may not come out perfect but will be better than if nothing was done at all. Also you way want to have the shop sand the hood with 800 grit and then apply a just a clearcoat. We charged 150-200 to do that and it made them look 10x better (gets rid of the majority of the small ripples), also gives protection against fadding or turning yellow.
12-07-04, 11:13 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Mdessouki
Most body kits are created poorly. He is saying that so you do not complain when it does not come out perfect and body pannels dont line up (protects himself from rework) the isnt alot of money to be made in something like this (there will be a lot of prep work and fitting compated to oem pannels). To answer you questions. you can make it look much better by sanding and primering the parts that are going to be painted, maybe even a skim coat of finishing mud. I may not come out perfect but will be better than if nothing was done at all. Also you way want to have the shop sand the hood with 800 grit and then apply a just a clearcoat. We charged 150-200 to do that and it made them look 10x better (gets rid of the majority of the small ripples), also gives protection against fadding or turning yellow.
im pretty sure the guy just wants to get the car out as soon as possible, and doesnt want to assign someone in the shop to sanding down the clear coat on those parts....haha
eh well im going back tomorrow and im going to tell him what ive been told by everyone on here (and other forums...). pretty much he can do it or ill have someone else do it...
12-08-04, 12:48 AM
#14
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I would say most affordable CF body panels out there are only for look. I have a CF look hood on my other car. It has one layer of CF woven lay on top of fiberglass reinforced composite material and it is only for look with no structural advantage over pure fiberglass product.
Actual CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) composite material required several stages of process to create making them expensive. I do not want to explain the details of how CFRP composite is made because it is not a new technology.
I do not see that one layer of carbon fiber will out-hold a good quality fiberglass product 2-3 times. Yes the CF hood you can get in the market is 100% Carbon fiber but it has only one layer.
Real CFRP will be formed in a laminated structure that require several layers of CF woven and resin sandwiched together, each layer is vaccum formed and finally cured in a autoclave. They are impact, dent ,crack and fatigue resistant with equal or better strength than any type of steel or aluminum.
BC
(Material Science Engineer)
Actual CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Polymer) composite material required several stages of process to create making them expensive. I do not want to explain the details of how CFRP composite is made because it is not a new technology.
I do not see that one layer of carbon fiber will out-hold a good quality fiberglass product 2-3 times. Yes the CF hood you can get in the market is 100% Carbon fiber but it has only one layer.
Real CFRP will be formed in a laminated structure that require several layers of CF woven and resin sandwiched together, each layer is vaccum formed and finally cured in a autoclave. They are impact, dent ,crack and fatigue resistant with equal or better strength than any type of steel or aluminum.
BC
(Material Science Engineer)
Originally Posted by iluvmy3rdgen
That one layer of carbon fiber will out-hold fiberglass like 2 or 3 times. People paint carbon fiber because they dont buy it for looks they buy it because it's a lot stronger then fiberglass, and a lot lighter then other material but don't want the front end looking like it fell into a batch of 3d weave paint (closest thing i can describe c/f to). A lot of people do leave the hood unpainted to bring some contrast to the car but they dont want a whole front end to be mixed match to the rear half.
Opinions are opinions tho. Some may buy carbon fiber just for the looks some buy it for function and others buy it for both. The reason the mazdaspeed is soo much is cause the name. Yes it may be 100% carbon fiber but other brands are 100% carbon fiber also.
To tell you my $.02 I thought carbon creations was 100% c/f, shows ya what i know i guess.
Opinions are opinions tho. Some may buy carbon fiber just for the looks some buy it for function and others buy it for both. The reason the mazdaspeed is soo much is cause the name. Yes it may be 100% carbon fiber but other brands are 100% carbon fiber also.
To tell you my $.02 I thought carbon creations was 100% c/f, shows ya what i know i guess.
Last edited by BC-FD3S; 12-08-04 at 01:06 AM.
12-08-04, 02:02 AM
#16
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The guy was giving you bs because if you do want to paint cf you treat it like anyother body parts.If the ripples are just in the clearcoat you could sand them down and they wont show over the paint.
