Outkast

Hi,

Can somebody please help me diagnose my drive line? I just installed a new (used tranny) since my output shaft was broken. I missed the shift fork when I first put the clutch slave cylinder in, so I had no clutch and there was fluid leaking through the bottom peep cover of the bell housing. Then I pulled the slave and fixed it (seal popped out) and re-installed it properly and bled the slave (was a real biatch to get all the air out) until I got somewhat of a clutch pedal (pops back up by itself but feels weak). The car starts fine and runs good but THE CLUTCH PEDAL IS TOO WEAK AND THERE IS A NAAASTY GRINDING SOUND WHEN I PUSH IT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIREWALL. IF I TRY TO PUT IN 1ST GEAR WITHOUT THE CLUTCH THE CAR STARTS TO MOVE A LITTLE EVEN WITH FIRST GEAR BARELY STARTING TO GO IN AND NOT TOUCHING THE CLUTCH PEDAL IT STARTS TO MOVE AT 1 MPH. THE CLUTCH TRIES TO GET OFF THE PRESSURE PLATE WHEN I PRESS THE PEDAL LOOKING THROUGH THE PEEPHOLE AND I HAVE SOMEWHAT (50% OF A CLUTCH PEDAL). I CANNOT ENGAGE 1ST GEAR WHEN I'M ON THE GROUND BUT CAN DO SO IN THE AIR AND THE CAR STARTS TO MOVE WHEN YOU TRY TO FORCE 1ST GEAR IN. There is a very nasty grinding sound pushing the clutch in, when you reach the firewall.

Somebody please please please help me if you know anything about this.
I have an ACT Extreme disk and PP and this was my first time installing a tranny. Using new pilot bearing/throwout bearing/clutch slave.



THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

First thing to check is to make sure you have the clutch disc on the right direction. That can yield some of the symtoms you are describing.

nocomply24

lol that sure would suck...

Outkast

Thanks Mahjik! Is it possible to get an ACT extreme clutch on backwards? (6 puck metallic). Both sides looked the same. Can I check if it's on right through the peep hole? How do I tell?
Thanks again.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Typically, there is only friction material on one side. I can't say for sure that yours doesn't have friction material on both sides since I've never installed that exact clutch. You wouldn't be able to tell from the inspection plate, you would have to pull the tranny again and check it out.

It's also worth trying a Power Bleeder to help you bleed the clutch first. On my first clutch change (along with a SS clutch line), I couldn't put it in gear while the car was running, only with it off. Bled it a few times with no help. Hooked up a Power Bleeder and it was done in just a few minutes and worked just fine.

White94RX

Sounds like you may still have air in the lines. Try bleeding it again. And definately check the slave cylinder for leaks since you said it did come apart. May not be working right.

billt

iTrader: (1)

Did you replace the OEM clutch line with an upgraded SS line?

Outkast

There was no more air in the lines. I bled it with a Mighty Vac (manual pump bleeder).
I will check/replace the slave although the shaft did not look bent and I re-assembled
it. As much as I WISH it was a pressure problem,
Could air in the lines/leaky slave cause the horrible grinding sound when I push the clutch down? Many people said it could be something with the pressure plate.

No, but I have one laying around, I think I will install it.

I thought about it and I'm pretty positive I installed the clutch properly. There is also friction material on both sides I think. I guess I could try bleeding again, anything before pulling the tranny a 2nd time.

Thank you all very much for the input. I am devastated.

mad_7tist

you may have nicked the rubber seal when you put it back in the slave....
i'm old fashioned and like the bleeding with a partner pump up, crack quicly repeat.

get someone to push the clutch in while you watch through the inspection cover and see if the clutch disengages..

soft pedal = hydraulic issue (if the fork is not broke etc..)

Outkast

UPDATE:

Tonight I will put the car back on jack stands and look in through the inspection plate. I will be looking for any loose/broken pressure plate bolts, the plate sitting flush on the flywheel and
the fork engaging properly on the throwout bearing. (while someone presses the clutch)
I should be able to see if the fork is square as it moves.

One theory is that the old fork got finished off by the spring tension of the ACT Extreme pressure plate. If it has a crack it will not be straight as it moves.

Another tranny guy told me that the pressure plate itself could have gotten damaged during the hard launch that broke my output shaft. Remember the pressure plate is brand new though and high performance.

Someone also suggested it could be the throwout bearing. I had a brand new one, but my friend kept it with my broken tranny because he said the one in my new used tranny was fine.

Others would blame the slave. If the flywheel hits it, it could bend and cause similar problems. However, I never started the car when I had the slave in wrong, and the shaft did not look bent at all when I reassembled it. I also doubt that it "beat up" my pressure plate when I pumped the clucth about ten times with the slave in wrong.

So as now it could be:

Bad throwout bearing
Cracked fork
Bad pressure plate
Bad slave
Air in the system

I may have also have a weak master cylinder.
Does any of this eliminate or suggest anything? And of course I have to pull stuff apart again and take a look, I will drag the car to work and re-do the tranny in the air, but by then I'd like to have all the necessary parts ready so that I don't tie up one of my stalls. Thanks a lot.

Outkast

I will do it again but last time I checked it, it TRIED to disengage, just didn't all the way.

Exactly. So I guess I must try to bleed again and try to look at the fork.

The main symptoms are:
-Very soft pedal
-Shifts in the air, but wheels spin before letting the clutch up
-Will not shift on the ground, but moves when you start putting in 1st
-Horrible grinding on firewall when pedal reaches floor

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

My money is on one of the first two, or a damaged wedge collar/wire ring assembly.

FD Rey

Sounds EXACTLY what I went through a couple of weeks ago. I also have the ACT Extreme PP. The problem was a broken clutch fork, bent the collar rings in the center of the pressure plate, and it messed up the throwout bearing. I know it's a pain in the *** but pull the tranny off and examinate all those things. And don't drive the car any more or keep pressing down the clutch as you will cause more harm then good. You might completely **** up the pressure plate.

White94RX

Yeah, I have to agree with it sounding like a hydraulic issue. But a bent or cracked fork could cause the same symptoms. It just sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. Hate to say it, but unless it's air in the lines, you may have to pull the tranny again.

I'm a tech at a BMW dealership, and one of the rookies was doing his first clutch job in the stall next to me. After he got it back together, he didn't have the slave cylinder pushrod in the notch on the fork just right. When he pushed in the clutch, the pushrod came out of the slave and fell into the bellhousing. Had to remove everything and pull the tranny back from the engine to get the stuff out of the bell housing. Sucked for him. Job paid 8 hours, and it probably took him at least that many. LOL, rookies.

Outkast

Ordered a new clutch fork, throwout bearing and slave (just in case so I don't get in trouble keeping my car at work for days). The stuff will be here Monday, and sometime next week I will pull the car to work and drop the tranny. If the pressure plate is damaged, that would suck (it's brand new and expensive). I refrained from bleeding any more as I don't want to press the clutch.
Thanks guys

Outkast

Pulled the tranny. Pressure plate was beat up from slave. Thowout bearing was rubbing on the clutch fork because it wasn't seated. The retaining ring (small iron one, not the sheetmetal sleeve) was all wrapped up in the pressure plate. Removed it and inspected the pressure plate, it's useable. Ordered new retaining ring, will be here tomorrow night.
Should be running by this weekend. Got a nitrous stang to annihilate, video coming soon...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the follow-up.

Outkast

Ok, I'm done. Car is running good and tranny shifting great. Installed a new shift fork as the one in my new tranny was cracked, and a new throwout bearing. A new slave and starter, along with a new driveshaft, fuel and air filter, and it drove great on the way home. Haha, my buddy that drives supercharged V8s and Z06s all the time thought it was soooo fast and I'm only running 300+ hp with 10 psi off the wastegate spring.
Well thanks for all the support and bearing with me through my misery. Hopefully next time I won't have to pull the tranny twice, but at least I learned a lot. Now I'm going to daily drive this thing, and take it to Moroso a few times to whip some asses that have been asking for it.