HELP!! Key broke in Ignition!
07-03-07, 05:26 PM
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HELP!! Key broke in Ignition!
Like the subject reads, my key broke off in my ignition. I had a locksmith come out and try to pull the remaining half of the key out, but he had no luck. He basically told me it would be damn near impossible given how far in the brokent piece was.
Is it feasable to remove the ignition switch on my own? Are there any directions / instructions someone has? I'm guessing not...
Secondly, can I use a 'used' ignition switch from a part-out car on this forum? How would that work? I'm guessing I'd need the key for the ignition I buy, right? Or no?
Somebody please help!
Thanks!
- Brett
Is it feasable to remove the ignition switch on my own? Are there any directions / instructions someone has? I'm guessing not...
Secondly, can I use a 'used' ignition switch from a part-out car on this forum? How would that work? I'm guessing I'd need the key for the ignition I buy, right? Or no?
Somebody please help!
Thanks!
- Brett
07-03-07, 06:08 PM
#2
Constant threat
You can disassemble the switch, it IS a pain in the *** though. There are basically two components, the mechanical and the electrical. Pull off the electrical connectors and then take off the ignition switch. You can then disassemble it to the point you will see the little 'tumblers' and you can get a SMALL pick in there and eject the broken key.
It really sucks though....make no mistake.
Seems like when I priced new switches they were around $475 for everything.
And yes, obviously if you get a used ignition switch it will have to have the key meant for it, unless of course you get it re-keyed....
It really sucks though....make no mistake.
Seems like when I priced new switches they were around $475 for everything.
And yes, obviously if you get a used ignition switch it will have to have the key meant for it, unless of course you get it re-keyed....
07-03-07, 06:49 PM
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before disassembling it ,which will be a pain, try this:
I had this happen on my old 72 Chevelle and I used a strong magnet and 2 plastic toothpicks to get it out. It took about 30 min of wiggling to get it out, but it was much better than taking apart the ignition.
I had this happen on my old 72 Chevelle and I used a strong magnet and 2 plastic toothpicks to get it out. It took about 30 min of wiggling to get it out, but it was much better than taking apart the ignition.
07-03-07, 07:43 PM
#4
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What an idiot. I bet he charged you to!
Get a brand new ignition from Malloy Mazda. Remove the old one yourself. Take both to a local locksmith shop. A real one, not a key copy kiosk in home building center. They can rekey the new one for you. Then just pop it back in.
If you can't wait and you have ALOT of patience then you can open it yourself. You just have to be carefull not to loose the spring and ball bearing. You should also get some lock grease to make it smooth.
Get a brand new ignition from Malloy Mazda. Remove the old one yourself. Take both to a local locksmith shop. A real one, not a key copy kiosk in home building center. They can rekey the new one for you. Then just pop it back in.
If you can't wait and you have ALOT of patience then you can open it yourself. You just have to be carefull not to loose the spring and ball bearing. You should also get some lock grease to make it smooth.
07-03-07, 07:45 PM
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Here is a write up I did for the door lock:
Originally Posted by GoRacer
ok, worked on the lock today. Like I said it takes ome patience and good eyes.
Remove metal cap
Remove black cover
Remove plastic hole dust cover flap
Remove spring
...
on the other side remove C clip
Remove arm
Remove washer
....
Insert key to remove cylinder
CAUTION!:You will want to use a magnet.
Slowly start to remove cylinder (turn key to release)
stop every MM to find what side the sring is on.
once you find it (by rotating) use your magnet up against the spring
SLOWLY remove the cylinder and catch the teeny weeny ball bearing and spring
...
You can just swap the cylinders if you don't want to rekey, assuming you don't have something broken in it.
...
to remove the tumblers, lay the cylinder on the table and slowly remove the key.
pull tumplers out carefully and lay them sidways all in the same way and order.
...
once the tumblers are removed from the new cylinder, insert tumblers from old in exactly the same order being carfull not to loose each spring for each tumbler. Each tumbler will have a nose that goes over the spring.
....
when all tumblers on both sides are reinserted then insert the key to hold them.
insert the cylinder in the housing.
...
on opposite side of key:
place washer
place arm
inset C clip
...
you can now remove the key:
insert spring
insert white hole cover
press on black cover
snap on metal cap.
...
resinstall new rekeyed lock
Note: If you are afraid of loosing the ball bearing or spring, don't have good eyes or patience then take both old and new lock housings with keys to a local locksmith store. You should be able to find an actuall store in a big city (not a key copy machine in home depot). They can rekey for you for cheap since you removed the lock from the door and it's assembly handle.
Remove metal cap
Remove black cover
Remove plastic hole dust cover flap
Remove spring
...
on the other side remove C clip
Remove arm
Remove washer
....
Insert key to remove cylinder
CAUTION!:You will want to use a magnet.
Slowly start to remove cylinder (turn key to release)
stop every MM to find what side the sring is on.
once you find it (by rotating) use your magnet up against the spring
SLOWLY remove the cylinder and catch the teeny weeny ball bearing and spring
...
You can just swap the cylinders if you don't want to rekey, assuming you don't have something broken in it.
...
to remove the tumblers, lay the cylinder on the table and slowly remove the key.
pull tumplers out carefully and lay them sidways all in the same way and order.
...
once the tumblers are removed from the new cylinder, insert tumblers from old in exactly the same order being carfull not to loose each spring for each tumbler. Each tumbler will have a nose that goes over the spring.
....
when all tumblers on both sides are reinserted then insert the key to hold them.
insert the cylinder in the housing.
...
on opposite side of key:
place washer
place arm
inset C clip
...
you can now remove the key:
insert spring
insert white hole cover
press on black cover
snap on metal cap.
...
resinstall new rekeyed lock
Note: If you are afraid of loosing the ball bearing or spring, don't have good eyes or patience then take both old and new lock housings with keys to a local locksmith store. You should be able to find an actuall store in a big city (not a key copy machine in home depot). They can rekey for you for cheap since you removed the lock from the door and it's assembly handle.
07-03-07, 09:23 PM
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Just got a PM from Fritz (well known in the forums). He's got a steering column with the switch attached (for $125).
Would removing/replacing the steering column be an easier fix? I've looked at the ignition switch and it looks like a royal pain in the ****. Plus, I've already had a locksmith come and try to get the broken part of the key out. He said he's done hundreds of broken key extractions and basically told me to replace it because there wasn't a chance he (or anyone else) would be able to get it out.
Never attempted something like a steering column removal before... but it sounds like it may be easier to remove it than to try to remove/replace the current ignition switch. And it may be cheaper... is a new ignition switch really $400+? Ouch.
Anyone have any thoughts on removing/replacing the steering column? Easy? Hard? Stupid idea?
-
Would removing/replacing the steering column be an easier fix? I've looked at the ignition switch and it looks like a royal pain in the ****. Plus, I've already had a locksmith come and try to get the broken part of the key out. He said he's done hundreds of broken key extractions and basically told me to replace it because there wasn't a chance he (or anyone else) would be able to get it out.
Never attempted something like a steering column removal before... but it sounds like it may be easier to remove it than to try to remove/replace the current ignition switch. And it may be cheaper... is a new ignition switch really $400+? Ouch.
Anyone have any thoughts on removing/replacing the steering column? Easy? Hard? Stupid idea?
-
Last edited by bluhring; 07-03-07 at 09:30 PM.
07-04-07, 06:39 AM
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Might work if the key is steel, I've found most to be brass (stock one is brass) and bends pretty easy. I guess he could check what's not in the ignition and see if the magnet will even attract it.
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07-04-07, 08:11 AM
#9
Constant threat
I would avoid this at all costs, personally. I have replaced a few ignition switches in my life, but always on old British sports cars. And they had these unique fasteners that were one-way only, meaning they were designed to be screwed in, but the head is constructed such that there is no way to unscrew them. They have to be drilled out or have the heads ground off, and in the cramped quarters of the average sports car, this is usually NOT real fun. But even these hassle factors pale in comparison to the task of removing the entire steering column...I would think. Having never done that...I will defer to more experienced folk.
07-04-07, 08:23 AM
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I replaced my ignition switch assembly due to a key (cut at the dealer) gettting "stuck" in the ignition. If I would have forced it to be removed, I would have broken it in the switch. This was due to the original key being slightly bent and wearing the internal tumbers and what not.
So, here are a few lessons learned from the process that will make your life MUCH easier if you decide to replace the key assembly with a new one instead of replacing the steering column with a key assembly.
1) The new key assembly comes with security screws (2) that are designed to snap off the head of the screw/bolt when tightend down to the steering column
2) To remove the old assembly, the dealer mechanic said to drill out the old snapped head bolts and remove the assembly
3) I tried to dill out the old bolts. Spent 3 hours and made like NO progress AND broke 3 heavy duty bits.
4) FINALLY came up with an solution that allowed me to remove the ignition assembly in 30 seconds. Take a dremel and SLOT the "security" bolts where the head snapped off. Use a screw driver and screw out the old bolts. THATS IT.....30 seconds and very easy.
Of course you can get the new assembly keyed for your old keys or just use the new keys that come with it. I don't like having 2 keys (one for the ignition, one for the doors/hatch) but its not the end of the world.
Terry
So, here are a few lessons learned from the process that will make your life MUCH easier if you decide to replace the key assembly with a new one instead of replacing the steering column with a key assembly.
1) The new key assembly comes with security screws (2) that are designed to snap off the head of the screw/bolt when tightend down to the steering column
2) To remove the old assembly, the dealer mechanic said to drill out the old snapped head bolts and remove the assembly
3) I tried to dill out the old bolts. Spent 3 hours and made like NO progress AND broke 3 heavy duty bits.
4) FINALLY came up with an solution that allowed me to remove the ignition assembly in 30 seconds. Take a dremel and SLOT the "security" bolts where the head snapped off. Use a screw driver and screw out the old bolts. THATS IT.....30 seconds and very easy.
Of course you can get the new assembly keyed for your old keys or just use the new keys that come with it. I don't like having 2 keys (one for the ignition, one for the doors/hatch) but its not the end of the world.
Terry
07-04-07, 09:23 AM
#11
Removing the steering column is easy. Use your shop manual for the cautions... Remove the underdash trim, remove the steering wheel and air bag, unhook the wiring connectors ( 5 or 6 of them ), remove the one bolt on the column universal under the hood, remove the 2 bolts and 2 nuts under the dash, lower it and pull it out thru the inside. While one person is holding it inside, unsnap the 4 snaps on the weather boot on the firewall and push it thru. I'd have it out in 30 min here at my garage. Take it to the work table and disassemble it. That key would be extracted.
later
later
07-04-07, 09:35 AM
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That would not work on most newer cars. The magnet was to pull the pins out of the way, but where the chevelle you only have pins on one side of the key. The RX7 has both cut. You would get one set of pins out of the way but the other set would hold on more.
07-04-07, 02:28 PM
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Thanks "ferragame"! The dremel idea worked like a charm. I was able to loosen the ignition assembly (i.e., the ignition switch, turn signal rod, etc.) It looks like all I need to do now is remove the steering wheel and unplug everything in the ignition assembly (looks to be 5 or 6 connections).
Sooo... How do I remove the steering wheel? Did lots of searching but came up empty....
Am I right in thinking that the 3 bolts behind the wheel need to be removed first. I imaging the front part of the wheel may come off exposing after removing the 3 bolts. Then I'm guessing there is some sort of center bolt that when removed allows you to remove the whole wheel?
Sooo... How do I remove the steering wheel? Did lots of searching but came up empty....
Am I right in thinking that the 3 bolts behind the wheel need to be removed first. I imaging the front part of the wheel may come off exposing after removing the 3 bolts. Then I'm guessing there is some sort of center bolt that when removed allows you to remove the whole wheel?
07-04-07, 04:00 PM
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remove the 3 bolts behind the wheel to disconnect the airbag.
Then disconnect the horn or anything that's connected and push the plugs to the back side of the wheel. Take off the center bolt. try pulling the wheel off if it's not budging then unbolt the steering column so you can lower it a bit to make the pulling process easier.
Then disconnect the horn or anything that's connected and push the plugs to the back side of the wheel. Take off the center bolt. try pulling the wheel off if it's not budging then unbolt the steering column so you can lower it a bit to make the pulling process easier.
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