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First, let me start by saying this forum is unbelievably helpful. Second, I've had an FD for almost a year now, and it is by far the best car I've ever driven. So much fun.
Now, I'm new at this wrenching stuff, so I apologize in advance if I ask some simple questions. Like this one:
Since I've had the car, it's had a small oil leak. Not enough to be a problem, just enough to be annoying. Maybe a drip or two every three days. Drips are located on the passenger side, at the back of the rear subframe (if that's what that black metal frame that blocks access to the oil pan is called). It looks like it could be the usual pan leak or maybe it's the motor mount. Any chance one of you experts can steer me right by looking at this picture? This is where I saw the most oil. I took the picture facing toward the front of the car. I circled the areas with the most oil -- there wasn't any visible oil above it. Anything else I should be looking for?
Also, basic question, is the thing I circled on the right the motor mount? I think so, based on the diagram in the factory service manual, but I wanted to confirm.
Yes, that's the right engine mount arm where it meets and bolts to the engine block through the oil pan...one reason they tend to leak. Pans can be resealed in the car but it's a kind of a PITA job. Should be a lot of threads on the subject. I also recommend an aftermarket oil pan brace if you go to the trouble.
More than likely a pan leak. You can make double sure by spraying off all the oil with brakleen and checking leak location again after driving.
Repairing the seal requires dropping the subframe a bit and it's a messy job - the oil just keeps dripping from the block. Let it drip a day and then clean off sealing surface before resealing.
DO NOT USE A GASKET. I had luck using Permatex right stuff and mine has been leak free for years, but others seem to think Hondabond is a better sealant. Regular RTV probably won't cut it.
I also agree, oil pan. The pan is REALLY hard to get to seal up right as I'm sure you've read.
Personally I don't like doing them in the car, I'd rather wait until the engine is out and do it then. With a slow, seeping leak like that you'll be fine for a long time, it's just annoying.
My oil pan has leaked for some time now, even with a brace and everything.
Don't try any quick fixes or anything, that won't get you anywhere. Especially any oil additives.
Personally, I consider it active underbody rustproofing .
I resealed my oil pan over the summer. It's not hard but very tricky. I have a v-mount and single turbo but the total job still took me about 4-6 hours. I did not drop the subframe.
This is what I did:
drain oil
unbolt all the stuff in front of the engine (intercooler, rad, etc)
unbolt thetwo oil cooler lines (a c-clip hold each line together). I have an R2 with dual oil collers
unbolt the motor mounts from the sub frame
lift the engine with an engine hoist (make sure that it is well secured because you will be squeezing your hands between the engine & subframe). Don't take any chances.
unbolt the motor mount arms and remove them
unbolt the oil pan bolts
break the oil pan seal
drop the oil pan on to the sub frame
reach between the oil pan & bottom of the motor and unbolt/remove the oil pick up tube
spin the oil pan 180 degrees
push the oil pan forwards so that the back of the oil pan (where the motor mounts were) is pushed up between the engine cover and subframe (remember the oil pan has been spun around)
drop the front of the oil pan (which is now located at the back of the engine) and slide it back
slide the front of the oil pan back and drop it
the oil pan was now free
Thanks, everyone. This is why these forums are so great.
I've got her up on jackstands now, so I'm thinking I'll tackle this project over the winter. I don't have an engine hoist, but it seems like I'll be needing to get one soon!
I've read a ton about this procedure, but I've never done anything like it, so I'll be sure to document everything along the way. A couple questions:
- Should I go ahead an replace my motor mounts while I'm at it? If so, and I go for the polyurethane mounts, do I need get new braces (or whatever they're called)?
- Does the pan brace impact any of the reinstallation?
- If I do this, I'm planning to do it with the engine in the car (pulling an engine seems soooo far out of my skill set). When reinstalling, do I still apply the gasket silicone to the block?
- Anything else I should worry about?
- Anything else I should poke at while the subframe is off?
I also agree, oil pan. The pan is REALLY hard to get to seal up right as I'm sure you've read.
Personally I don't like doing them in the car, I'd rather wait until the engine is out and do it then. With a slow, seeping leak like that you'll be fine for a long time, it's just annoying.
My oil pan has leaked for some time now, even with a brace and everything.
Don't try any quick fixes or anything, that won't get you anywhere. Especially any oil additives.
Personally, I consider it active underbody rustproofing .
Pulling the engine isn't that big of a deal...just a bit tedious and time consuming. Though there are forum members who can pull an engine in something like 2 hours...crazy. But definitely don't attempt it if you indeed feel it is out of your comfort zone.
I fought a leak on my new engine from Day One...frustrating as hell. I've decided it's one of those things "I'll get around to", someday. And while there are people who've successfully conquered the foul beast, there are many who have pulled the engine or dropped the sub-frame many times, tried all the known tricks and accessories and sealants and voodoo sacrifices, only to STILL have it leak.
Thanks for the encouragement. I figure this is a good project to get my feet wet on wrenching on the 7. Probably learn a bit about where things go as well. Pulling the engine is probably a couple levels above where I am now, but maybe one day!
Back to the motor mounts, how will I know if I have the aluminum or steel bracket on the drivers' side? And if I have the aluminum one and want to buy the poly mounts, where do I get the steel bracket that fits them?
Never tried though I agree it’s gotta be a lot tougher job re-sealing with the engine in the car. I lived with mine for 4 or 5 years until I had the engine out anyway. But I don’t think it requires voodoo or black-magic. Mines been dry now for 10+ years without sprinkling chicken blood or sacrificing any animals. The neighbors cat going missing was just a coincidence. No one can prove any different.
Just take it by the numbers...
* Both surfaces hospital clean. No dirt, old sealant or oil.
*Flat pan lip. I used a straight-edge with a body-hammer and dolly.
*A good pan brace.
* Clean all bolt holes of old silicone
* Follow directions with PROVEN sealant (see linked threads above)
* Follow torque specs.
Another pic of a failed aluminum arm for reference...
Mines been dry now for 10+ years without sprinkling chicken blood or sacrificing any animals. The neighbors cat going missing was just a coincidence. No one can prove any different.
Pulling the engine isn't that big of a deal...just a bit tedious and time consuming. Though there are forum members who can pull an engine in something like 2 hours...crazy. But definitely don't attempt it if you indeed feel it is out of your comfort zone..
I can go from popping the hood to engine all the way apart (rotors and rotor housings) in 2.5 hours. A lot of it is air tools, knowing the order of taking things apart, and removing everything in large components (removing fuel rails/rat's nest/wiring as one unit) and doing most everything with the engine on the stand out of the car.
Regardless, it's not worth doing for JUST an oil pan leak. Had a buddy with bad turbos, rear main seal leak, and oil pan leak - 3 things made it worth pulling the engine. Saturday pulled the motor and fixed everything, then reinstalled and got it running Sunday.
I used the Right Stuff grey sealant that comes in the EZ-Cheez squirt can. I know there's been a lot of discussion about sealants, from Hondabond to others, that can handle it better. I think some of the formulations just don't handle oil well and we've learned that the seal stays submerged in oil all the time. The fact that the rotary dilutes oil with gas and probably the 10% ethanol that is in modern gas doesn't help.
I will say that doing it in the car is an ugly, uncomfortable, and time consuming task. Having the engine out, on an engine stand and upside-down makes it SO much easier to do it isn't even funny.
Also, it's worth biting the bullet and getting a NEW oil pan from Mazda. Many times the existing pan has been bent so many times that it just will never sit flat.
Yes. New oil pans are nice. I agree it's not worth taking the engine out for just the oil pan. But I like taking the subframe out for full easy access. Prying it down and working around it can be a pain, especially if it's your first time.
Yes. New oil pans are nice. I agree it's not worth taking the engine out for just the oil pan. But I like taking the subframe out for full easy access. Prying it down and working around it can be a pain, especially if it's your first time.
+1. Use an engine support bar
Personally, i wouldn't even bother unless you are replacing the motor mounts while your at it. Banzai's transmission brace helps worn motor mounts as well.
But I don’t think it requires voodoo or black-magic. Mines been dry now for 10+ years without sprinkling chicken blood or sacrificing any animals. The neighbors cat going missing was just a coincidence. No one can prove any different.
Personally, i wouldn't even bother unless you are replacing the motor mounts while your at it. Banzai's transmission brace helps worn motor mounts as well.
When I did my pan, I made an engine support/lifting bar from 2x2" angle iron and supported it with 2x4's resting on the edges of the engine compartment next to the fenders. IIRC, I attached it to the engine at one of its lifting eyes.
It was too long ago, so I don't remember all the details, but it worked fine to support and lift the engine the small amount needed (in addition to prying the subframe down a bit) to get clearance for the pan to come out.
01-03-18, 07:37 PM
Help an amateur with oil leak!
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