Heel and Toe Question
02-08-02, 07:14 PM
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Heel and Toe Question
I am wondering if using excessive heel and toe is bad for the engine and transmission? I think it is but what do you guys think?
02-08-02, 09:18 PM
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If you are doing heel and toe properly you are actually rev matching, therefore you WILL be saving clutches and synchro wear, rather than causing it. The whole idea of heel/toe is to decelerate smoothly into a corner.
When done properly the downshift should go in almost on its own without forcing the lever at all, just simply moving it into the lower gear.
The transition should be smooth with no feeling of synchros working or the engine speeding up after releasing the clutch after the shift.
-Kib
When done properly the downshift should go in almost on its own without forcing the lever at all, just simply moving it into the lower gear.
The transition should be smooth with no feeling of synchros working or the engine speeding up after releasing the clutch after the shift.
-Kib
02-09-02, 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by KibagamiR2
If you are doing heel and toe properly you are actually rev matching, therefore you WILL be saving clutches and synchro wear, rather than causing it. The whole idea of heel/toe is to decelerate smoothly into a corner.
When done properly the downshift should go in almost on its own without forcing the lever at all, just simply moving it into the lower gear.
The transition should be smooth with no feeling of synchros working or the engine speeding up after releasing the clutch after the shift.
-Kib
If you are doing heel and toe properly you are actually rev matching, therefore you WILL be saving clutches and synchro wear, rather than causing it. The whole idea of heel/toe is to decelerate smoothly into a corner.
When done properly the downshift should go in almost on its own without forcing the lever at all, just simply moving it into the lower gear.
The transition should be smooth with no feeling of synchros working or the engine speeding up after releasing the clutch after the shift.
-Kib
02-09-02, 02:50 AM
#6
The point of using the "heel and toe" technique is to downshift without upsetting the car, which means matching revs so you won't slow down or speed up the car when you let the clutch out. When you don't match revs, you'll shift weight to the front or the back of the car, which upsets the balance of the car. You are usually doing this when braking for a turn, so you don't want to let the clutch out and lock up the rear tires or reduce your stopping power by taking weight off the front (or accelerate the car).
It won't hurt the car, and as several have pointed out, is actually good for the synchros.
If you have to feather the clutch, you are upsetting the car. Improve your heel and toe skills the reduce this.
Stuff that helps you not upset the car:
- Widefoot gas pedal extension (makes it easier to blip the throttle)
- light flywheel (easier to rev on a blip, and reduces the effect of not matching perfectly)
-Max
It won't hurt the car, and as several have pointed out, is actually good for the synchros.
If you have to feather the clutch, you are upsetting the car. Improve your heel and toe skills the reduce this.
Stuff that helps you not upset the car:
- Widefoot gas pedal extension (makes it easier to blip the throttle)
- light flywheel (easier to rev on a blip, and reduces the effect of not matching perfectly)
-Max
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02-09-02, 10:49 AM
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Read this:
http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm
It will explain everything. Heel Toe is covered at the bottom, but you need to read about double clutching first to understand it.
As for the original question: it is better for your engine. If you match revs exactly, then you should theoretically be able to make the shift without using the clutch at all since the synchros and the engine will be moving at the same speed.
Will
http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm
It will explain everything. Heel Toe is covered at the bottom, but you need to read about double clutching first to understand it.
As for the original question: it is better for your engine. If you match revs exactly, then you should theoretically be able to make the shift without using the clutch at all since the synchros and the engine will be moving at the same speed.
Will
02-09-02, 06:42 PM
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heel on gas... toes on brake....
do both at the same time.
blip gas to match revs while braking before the turn.
why you ask? go up a couple posts and read what maxcooper said.
do both at the same time.
blip gas to match revs while braking before the turn.
why you ask? go up a couple posts and read what maxcooper said.
02-09-02, 07:12 PM
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Lets say u r in 4th gear 2k RPM.. going 50MPH and wants to down shift to 3rd on next coner..
CLutch in, Gear in N, tap da gas about 3-3.6k RPM, 3rd gear, clutch out gas.
Its kind da hard to explain.
CLutch in, Gear in N, tap da gas about 3-3.6k RPM, 3rd gear, clutch out gas.
Its kind da hard to explain.
02-09-02, 07:59 PM
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Todd Serota, who runs the TracQuest events, posted a Heel-Toe tutorial on his message board. Go to:
www.tracquest.com
Then go to the message boards and search for "How To Teach Yourself To Heel-Toe"
Might be in the archives, but it's from last July.
www.tracquest.com
Then go to the message boards and search for "How To Teach Yourself To Heel-Toe"
Might be in the archives, but it's from last July.
02-11-02, 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by legendr35
won't feathering the clutch while match revving wear out the clutch a litte faster than usual?
won't feathering the clutch while match revving wear out the clutch a litte faster than usual?
Hmm I don't think I said anything about feathering the clutch. Double-clutching is not feathering BTW. I cannot heel/toe properly in my car as my feet are simply too large at 14EE/W ( at least not comfortably). So I have the widefoot adapter for my throttle pedal and I rock my foot to blip the throttle around 1k during the downshifts.
Practice the downshifts and your driving will become even more enjoyable. Oh yes.. and the lovely music the car makes because of the downshifts is even more of a reward ;-)
-Kib
02-11-02, 07:46 AM
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What's the favorite method for doing this with stock pedals? I've been experimenting with this lately, and here's my take on it...
Originally I liked putting my foot right between the pedals and just rocking my foot left or right as necessary. This works great for normal street driving, but as soon as I really had to push the brakes hard, they moved too far past the gas pedal for me to correct by tilting my foot resulting in the engine revving and nothing I could do about it.
So, I moved to heel on the bottom right corner of the brake and toe in the top extreme portion of the gas. Been doing this for a while now since it seems like the best alternative. However, Mazda decided that the corners of the brake pedal should be angled, and twice now I've had my foot slip off the brake while I'm blipping the throttle.....which will make you pee your pants as you panic and try to get back on the brakes!
Oh, and somebody mentioned heel on the gas and toe on the brake, but with the layout of the car, I can't even begin to get my feet to do that (maybe it's just a personal problem...). Also, for what it's worth I've read that the preferred technique is to put your toe on the most critical pedal in your car; low horsepower cars - toe on brake, high horsepower - toe on gas.
Anyway, guess you can tell I'm a big fan of the technique. Seems like nobody knows how to do this anymore so it usually impresses the hell out of people when they're riding with you.....
Originally I liked putting my foot right between the pedals and just rocking my foot left or right as necessary. This works great for normal street driving, but as soon as I really had to push the brakes hard, they moved too far past the gas pedal for me to correct by tilting my foot resulting in the engine revving and nothing I could do about it.
So, I moved to heel on the bottom right corner of the brake and toe in the top extreme portion of the gas. Been doing this for a while now since it seems like the best alternative. However, Mazda decided that the corners of the brake pedal should be angled, and twice now I've had my foot slip off the brake while I'm blipping the throttle.....which will make you pee your pants as you panic and try to get back on the brakes!
Oh, and somebody mentioned heel on the gas and toe on the brake, but with the layout of the car, I can't even begin to get my feet to do that (maybe it's just a personal problem...). Also, for what it's worth I've read that the preferred technique is to put your toe on the most critical pedal in your car; low horsepower cars - toe on brake, high horsepower - toe on gas.
Anyway, guess you can tell I'm a big fan of the technique. Seems like nobody knows how to do this anymore so it usually impresses the hell out of people when they're riding with you.....
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