Please someone help...

Fun, no starting, black FD.

Have done so far:
Removing UIM, replacing necessary hoses that broke in the process (it probably hasn't been off in 30k+ miles)
Testing the coils following the shop manuals.
Swapping ignitors (thanks to CyberBen3)
Checking for spark (and lack thereof)
Finally, getting a dang scan tool, hooking into the diagnosis connection on the fenderwell and getting NO CODES. What?

I am stumped. Does the ECU fail in these cars? There is no spark, no fire at all. The engine wouldn't start last weekend, the finally did. It was intermittant, and would go on and off starting and finally totally died at my work and wouldn't start at all. When it was on, would run great, full boost or thereabouts (I have been getting 7psi anyways), no hesitations or bucking. Thinking ECU or crank angle sensor. But the crank angle sensor would come up as a code 3...so ?

If anyone has ideas, or would like to help; post or call my anytime at 314.504.5070. And thanks in advance.

Jason

 

Was it leaking oil really bad before? Something like this happend to me. I thought it was the starter, but it turned out that the starter was just all gunked up. Could be way off base with your problem though.

 

Nope, no oil leaks worth mentioning. Starter turns over just fine

 

Forced a code (removed the connector for the TPS) and it did show up in the scantool. So that most likely rules out the ECU. Is it possible for the crank angle sensor to be bad and not throw a code? I pulled ECU connector off at the ECU and measured .071 k ohms on it. Spec should be .92-1.x via the shop manual. Code 02 and 03 do NOT show up, however. Bad ECU/Bad crank angle sensor?

Can anyone measure between 4G and 4H on connector on the ECU to measure your crank angle sensor specs? Its super easy to get to the ECU and do this. Its the top connector, fourth set of contacts down from the top for those with out the wiring diagrams.

J

 

Swapped ECU's thanks to CowsniperLCD, with no effect; so that eliminates the ECU potentially being bad.

Is it possible for the crank angle sensor to be bad and not throw a code? It doesn't show up in the scans. However, its about damn near the only thing it could be as I have swapped and or tested everything else.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

J

 

Swapped ECU's thanks to CowsniperLCD, with no effect; so that eliminates the ECU potentially being bad.

Is it possible for the crank angle sensor to be bad and not throw a code? It doesn't show up in the scans. However, its about damn near the only thing it could be as I have swapped and or tested everything else.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

J

 

first go buy new pluggs and wires then trace back along all of the ignition wiring and look for a loose connector or damaged wiring. hopefully that will work

 

That has been done. New plugs, Tested wires; tested coils, tested ignitor via swapping. No spark, no fuel.

 

you're not getting fuel either? did you check all of your fuses? i know it may sound dumb but it's usually something simple.

 

have someone turn the key on while your under the hood and see if the fuel pump seems to be running(touch,listen). If yes,if you don't have the proper tool,put an old spark plug on the plug wire(danger!!@#! )and seeturn the key over and see if its firing. If yes,then change the plugs again because they are probably gas soaked,I've had this happen numerous times to new plugs.If you have any other questions please email the question or a link to this site,as I don't often check back.Or you can callbetween 4 and 6 pm eastern standard time for technical assistance.954-566-2472

Thanks and good luck,
Chad

email me at: asiracing@asiracing.com

 

Yep, have done both of the above. Fuel pump is running, have fuel pressure. Have checked for spark, nothing. The Crank angle sensor didn't show up in the scantool; but I think that is it and I ordered it today. All the issues fall in line with it. It would cause no spark and would shut the injectors down.

We will see it will be here tomorrow.

J

 

If the car doesnt turn over at all when you try to start it,(you turn the key and the starter doesnt do anything) it could be the main fuse. I was working on my car one time and somehow melted my main fuse. Easy thing to overlook I guess.

 

I'll be in STL today or tomorrow. I took down your number so I can call you and come take a look at it. I'd be happy to help a fellow FD owner in any way I can! Haven't met you yet anyway, so I figure now is as good a time as any!

 

now that's what I'm talking about!!
right on dude that's how fd owners should be

if anyone needs help in florida I'll help out

 

Car does turn over, no issues there with power; starter/battery, etc. Imagine if you unclipped your injectors, and removed your plug wires; that is basically what its doing. I am betting on the Crank angle sensor and it will be here tomorrow.

Even though it doesn't show up in the scantool, the older pre-OBD-II systems can not throw a code and a sensor can still be bad. Since there is no cam trigger in the rotary, there is a four wire two sensor crank sensor which is very important. It will kill the engine if it goes bad.

I must say I have also been very impressed with fellow FD owners. Several in the area have loaned parts to swap and test with. Great people with FD's for sure.



J

 

----jdhuegel1----

I will be playing garage all evening tomorrow assuming that my sensor arrives at the dealership. You are *more* then welcome to stop by. I am in West County.

Anyone else in the area as well; most of you have my cell, hit me up if you aren't busy and come play & pray with & for the FD.

J

 

I would say it is the crank angle sensor also. My uncles miata had the same problem last week and thats what is turned out to be.

 

Alright-

Not the crank angle sensor. Pulled both and replaced one of them, since I had already bought it. All of them spec'd out fine at 1.130k Ohms.

I am truely stumped. Have checked everything!

Dammit. I have someone that is going to take a look at it next Monday, but I really need my car back way sooner then that. Can anyone help, ideas? Something to try?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Jason

 

long shot, but you could have a broken wire somewhere in the wiring harness. Check for continuity in the wires between the ecu and the various sensors/components (coils and crank angle sensors)

 

That about all that is left!

 

 

faulty ignition switch ????
just a shot in the dark.....

 

Yeah, I would have to agree with ISUposs that it is a harness problem. I would start by checking the continuity between the ECU and the crank angle sensor plugs. Will it set a trouble code if you unplug a crank sensor?

How about a relay? I'm not too familiar on the functions of the relays... I know that the circuit relay will cut off the injectors, but I don't think it will cut off spark (I could be wrong).

Ignition switch is a good suggestion too.

 

Once you were able to get it started, would it stay running? You said that it died at work... did it actually die, or did you shut it off an then it wouldn't start again?

I'm thinking that if it never died after it was running, it is probably not a bad connection in your harness or a failing sensor, but is probably a relay or the ignition switch. You see what I'm getting at?

I used to have a 1990 Plymouth Sundance that sometimes would not start, but once started would run fine (i.e., it never died and ran fine, once started). It turned out there is a relay on the car, called the 'Auto Shutdown Relay' that cuts off spark and/or fuel when the key was turned off. One of the wires going to the relay had corroded and was making a poor connection, so the relay wouldn't trip all the time.

 

Yes, once it would start it would run fine, normally as it always had. I did have a few (very few like two in a month) extremely brief hiccups that I noticed were odd/unusual as I have none normally. 3k Hesitation type hiccups.

The engine would NEVER die once running or anything like that. Towards the end of it finally not starting, it would crank over and over; and if you fully shut off the ignition a few times it would help it to start easier (it seemed to me at least)

Yes I agree with possible ignition and harness issues. Relays and like too. I shall check more tonight.

Party at Jason's!

This car will be the death of me. #@$!%@#%@#$%