Grip recommendations
09-11-22, 04:18 PM
#26
An RX-7 has no traction control or stability control, so it needs to be treated with respect. Better tires don't change physics, they just allow you to get into more trouble especially if the improved grip masks bad driving habits or an unforgiving car setup. What are the odds that OP's car is well-behaved with staggered wheels and Japanese coilovers? The FD already tends to oversteer with stock suspension, IMHO.
An FD isn't a low-powered 'momentum' car that needs a lot of cornering speed in the first place. Use the brakes generously to slow down before the corner, go through the corner at a nice safe speed, then gradually get back on the throttle as you're straightening the steering wheel. And add plenty of safety margin when driving 'spirited' on public roads with unpredictable surfaces and ditches and guardrails and soft shoulders. If you want to push the car to the limit, that's what autocrosses and track days are for. Spend less on mods and more on track entry fees, that's my advice. If you don't own a helmet and a harness and a tire pressure gauge, you've got no business buying coilovers or 200 treadwear tires.
An FD isn't a low-powered 'momentum' car that needs a lot of cornering speed in the first place. Use the brakes generously to slow down before the corner, go through the corner at a nice safe speed, then gradually get back on the throttle as you're straightening the steering wheel. And add plenty of safety margin when driving 'spirited' on public roads with unpredictable surfaces and ditches and guardrails and soft shoulders. If you want to push the car to the limit, that's what autocrosses and track days are for. Spend less on mods and more on track entry fees, that's my advice. If you don't own a helmet and a harness and a tire pressure gauge, you've got no business buying coilovers or 200 treadwear tires.
09-12-22, 09:40 AM
#27
Racecar - Formula 2000
More on high-performance tires for the street
A cautionary note on high-performance summer tires for the street...
I have been racing (mostly formula cars) for over 50 years. In spite of all that experience, I've been caught out several times, both on the track and on the street by high-performance or race tires at temperatures below 50F. So while a high-performance summer tire is usually a good choice for a car like the FD, one has to VERY aware of a possible severe lack of grip in cold weather, even if the road surface is clean and dry.
I have been racing (mostly formula cars) for over 50 years. In spite of all that experience, I've been caught out several times, both on the track and on the street by high-performance or race tires at temperatures below 50F. So while a high-performance summer tire is usually a good choice for a car like the FD, one has to VERY aware of a possible severe lack of grip in cold weather, even if the road surface is clean and dry.
Last edited by DaveW; 09-12-22 at 09:55 AM.
09-13-22, 04:35 PM
#28
In reality, on the street or a a canyon road (above freezing weather), the difference between a good performance street tire like a PS4S or ExtremeContact Sport and a 200TW EC Force, A052, ETC... Is negligible.
The argument for choosing a less grippy tire FOR THE STREET is not a good one. If you're pushing the limit on the street to "feel" over and understeer, you're probably not being safe to begin with because it's not safe to practice driving at the limit on the street.
A tire with more grip on the street will be safer, allowing you to avoid accidents. If your application is freezing weather, don't run a 200TW tire, select the grippiest tire available for those temperature conditions. There's nothing wrong with beginners driving on 200TW or R-comps on the track either. I've coached numerous beginners in a variety of different cars and ive worked with very inexperienced drivers in proper race cars on slicks, the tire choice is not a big deal.
Now if you want to practice car control (which I highly recommend) then yes, the lower limits of a less sticky tire will make it easier to practice car control. However, practicing car control will result in occasional spins, and event organizers are more interested in having people be safe and slow rather than become better drivers and work on car control.
I highly recommend giving these articles a read:
How to properly select a tire:
https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-s...r-performance/
Driver Development - Car Control:
https://motoiq.com/driver-development-car-control/
Driver Development - Learning Processes:
https://motoiq.com/driver-developmen...ing-processes/ 0.02
The argument for choosing a less grippy tire FOR THE STREET is not a good one. If you're pushing the limit on the street to "feel" over and understeer, you're probably not being safe to begin with because it's not safe to practice driving at the limit on the street.
A tire with more grip on the street will be safer, allowing you to avoid accidents. If your application is freezing weather, don't run a 200TW tire, select the grippiest tire available for those temperature conditions. There's nothing wrong with beginners driving on 200TW or R-comps on the track either. I've coached numerous beginners in a variety of different cars and ive worked with very inexperienced drivers in proper race cars on slicks, the tire choice is not a big deal.
Now if you want to practice car control (which I highly recommend) then yes, the lower limits of a less sticky tire will make it easier to practice car control. However, practicing car control will result in occasional spins, and event organizers are more interested in having people be safe and slow rather than become better drivers and work on car control.
I highly recommend giving these articles a read:
How to properly select a tire:
https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-s...r-performance/
Driver Development - Car Control:
https://motoiq.com/driver-development-car-control/
Driver Development - Learning Processes:
https://motoiq.com/driver-developmen...ing-processes/ 0.02
09-14-22, 12:13 AM
#29
As I stated above-
The issue is the delta between maximum grip and minimum grip makes a novice performance driver feel like the high grip tire is less predictable.
The high grip tire is NOT less predictable, they just arent seeing all the variables that affect grip.
The lower grip all season tire has a much smaller delta between its maximum and minimum grip and usually a more progressive drop in grip.
This makes the all season feel "more predictable".
This doesnt have anything to do with carrying slip angle through a turn on the street.
If one is an advanced enough driver they are entering turns carrying significant rear slip angle they are going to know what they want out of a tire and when (often choosing an all season tire for the street and a race tire for the track).
The issue is the delta between maximum grip and minimum grip makes a novice performance driver feel like the high grip tire is less predictable.
The high grip tire is NOT less predictable, they just arent seeing all the variables that affect grip.
The lower grip all season tire has a much smaller delta between its maximum and minimum grip and usually a more progressive drop in grip.
This makes the all season feel "more predictable".
This doesnt have anything to do with carrying slip angle through a turn on the street.
If one is an advanced enough driver they are entering turns carrying significant rear slip angle they are going to know what they want out of a tire and when (often choosing an all season tire for the street and a race tire for the track).
09-14-22, 01:10 AM
#30
Looking through Tire Rack I see that most the tires I view as "all seasons" are listed as "high performance summer tires."
I guess that is my warped perception from commuting on DOT R race tires and where I live.
Example- Continental Extremecontact Sport 340utqg tires with the DW molded in the tread to let you know when the DW is worn down the Driving Wet water evacuation is compromised (still legal tread depth left though).
In any case an "ultra high performance all season" class tire would do fine as well.
Im not advocating using poor quality low grip tires, but high quality well rounded tires.
They are far from the performance of the 200utqg tires, but good tires for the mild climate here in Northern California (lots of water, seldom ice outside of higher elevations).
I guess that is my warped perception from commuting on DOT R race tires and where I live.
Example- Continental Extremecontact Sport 340utqg tires with the DW molded in the tread to let you know when the DW is worn down the Driving Wet water evacuation is compromised (still legal tread depth left though).
In any case an "ultra high performance all season" class tire would do fine as well.
Im not advocating using poor quality low grip tires, but high quality well rounded tires.
They are far from the performance of the 200utqg tires, but good tires for the mild climate here in Northern California (lots of water, seldom ice outside of higher elevations).
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