suganuma

anyone used either of these or have info on them??

also, what is the difference between the 2 row and 3 row Greddy......just wondering what the benefits the extra cost brings and how it changes the construction.

thanks

JoeD

i dunno much about the greddy, but i do know that the Apex FMIC is the best one, IMO. comes with intakes, has delta-flow fins or whatever (lets air go through to the radiator), and looks the best underhood and from outside.

my .02.

suganuma

i would be getting the apexi one WITHOUT the goofy colored piping intakes, but will be using it with the stock twins until i get my single.
im just in need of a bigger IC after seeing what my intake temps are like via the PFC.
for the longest time i was set on the M2 large since i will be doing autocross, drag and road racing as well as the car having street duty, but i have started to look at FMICs as an option since technology has improved a lot to allow for the radiator to see the air it needs.

94touring

The apexi has more volume, looks good, and is designed to let air flow better than other fmic's. If you are into autocross and road racing then I would upgrade the radiator if you haven't done so already and maybe do a fan mod. If you have the haltech you can set up the fans to come on and turn off at certain temps. And if you don't like the piping colors, you can always repaint them like I did.

suganuma

i have the fluidyne radiator and my fans come on all the damn time as long as there is electrical/a-c load on the engine......so i guess thats kinda a fan mod....heh

did anyone do a FMIC install themselves?.....maybe have a how-to write up somewhere i could look over?

DeNguyen

i have the greddy FMIC, and have to argue that even though the apex is larger in volume it doesnt compare to the surface area size of the greddy. and the last i checked, surface area is way more important than volume when it comes to IC's. someone also said that apex has the delta fin design which allows air to flow thru better. well, until this has been physically tested and proven...no one will know for sure. and on top of that, how can air flow thru better if the apex unit is 5 inches thick compared to the 3 inch thick greddy? the only thing i can think of thats better on the apex unit is that it comes with fitted intakes as opposed to the greddy where you have to custom make your own. oh and by the way, me, teddy and jetlag installed the FMIC on my car and it was a bitch. 16 hours of labor. teddy says the apex unit is MUCH easier to install.

suganuma

what was so hard about the greddy install in comparison to the apexi install??
what makes the FMIC install difficult in the first place? the trimming of the bumper?....removal of bumper support?....ive never seen a writeup on an install or seen one done so i dont know what all goes into it. ill search previous threads about that, but DeNguyen, if you could let us know what the differences are in the install I at least would find it helpful in my decision.

also, i heard that the apexi one had a larger surface area.....can anyone settle this discrepancy?

thanks for all the info/help so far

Jetlag

I choose Greddy unit, because it does not have the goofy bends on the pipes and it have alot more surface area. It was Corky Bell's book that talked about surface area vs volume. The surface does most off the cooling, as the core gets thicker, it is diminshing returns.

Oh, the Apex i/c has the A/C condensor flat to the ground. If having a working A/C is important to you, get something else.

The Greddy I/C was a pain in the *** to install, but it does fill up the opening nicely.

I say any upgrade is better than none at all. Pick your weapon M2, Petitt, HKS, Greddy, or Blitz.

http://communities.msn.com/Meko/phot...oto&PhotoID=38

JoeD

so you can't have a functioning AC with the Apex FMIC????

DeNguyen

the greddy is about 24 inches long. 11 inches tall. almost 3 inches thick.

apex is 19inches long. 9 inches tall. 5 inches thick.

as you can see, the apex is much thicker, but doesnt cover nearly as much space as the greddy.


the greddy install wasnt HARD... just time consuming. it required lots of trimming of the bumper/ the fiberglass structure/ parts of the engine bay. compared to the apex where almost no trimming was involved.

twinturboteddy

rx7fashion FMIC baby!

Soon.




BEEF!!!!!

It's what for dinner!!!!!

suganuma

i heard the rx7fashion IC (GT-R Core) has terrible pressure drop....thats just by word of mouth though.....

DeNguyen

rx7fashion has the same core dimension as the greddy. pressure drop in my car is very minimal, are barely noticable. the thing about the rx7fashion FMIC i dont like is the way the piping and end tanks are setup. it looks completely different in pics than in person. TTT's neighbor has it

suganuma

so whats the difference in the 3-row and 2-row Greddy FMIC??

Jetlag

The two row is best for 15 psi and below and the three row is 15psi and up. I have the two row, can't even feel the presure drop.

94touring

My ac still works fine with my apexi fmic, and I didn't notice much if any pressure drop. I thought that both ic's were 24 inches long? I will search around to verify, I know I have seen specs for these two and other ic's.

suganuma

so what happen if you use the 3 row sometimes running under 15 psi??
will you just encounter a lot of pressure drop - decrease in performance, spool up time......what would happen??

i will probalby be running around 17-18 at track and for fun around town, but then probably around 10-12 most of the time.

Pressurized

I would go Apexi'...from people I talked to, they all said the Greddy was way to difficult(cutting) to do again....

It took myself about 14hours to install everything, I think it took the longest trying to get the front bumper off, I had a hell of a time getting to those bolts! Also, I didn't think everything fit right, you'll have to make some adjustments(cut a little) and buy a small battery...

Umm, I had to cut a little of the frame, the splash guard on the underside and I made the battery tray smaller...that took a little while.....

maxcooper

Pressure drop means less power, not necessarily less boost. Pressure drop is the difference in pressure before and after the intercooler. Having a lot of pressure drop means the turbos have to work harder to make the same manifold pressure. When the turbos work harder, they make more backpressure and can heat the intake air more. When there is more backpressure, you get less fresh air in the combustion chambers and thus less power.

For example, if your IC has a pressure drop of 1.5 psi at 500 CFM, your turbos need to make 14.5 psi to get 13 psi manifold pressure (that you would read on your boost gauge). If your IC has 3 psi pressure drop, your turbos need to make 16 psi to get 13 in the manifold. Your boost gauge still reads 13 psi, but your turbos are more of an exhaust restriction now, and the air coming out of them is hotter. A really efficient IC can bring the temps down, but you still lose a substantial amount of power because of the exhaust restriction.

-Max

suganuma

im aware of what pressure drop is......just wondering if thats what i would encounter moving from the 2-row to the 3-row

what sort of IC performance makes the difference that makes it better for a certain psi and what would happen if i used the 3-row at lower boost levels.

what psi range is the apexi unit best suited for??

but thanks for the definition there max....im sure that helped out some newbies....

maxcooper

suganuma,

No problem. I just wanted to clear it up because some posts seemed to be equating boost levels with pressure drop.

Having a big IC and running low boost is no problem -- that will work just fine. A small IC with big boost would be a problem. Actually it is flow that matters rather than boost, but high boost usually indicates high flow. Lower pressure drop is always better, all other things being equal. I think the Greddy 3-row is likely to have lower pressure drop than the 2-row, but it might not be a very significant difference unless you are flowing a lot of air (open exhaust, high boost, high RPM, etc.).

Since we usually end up taking our cars to the next level at some point down the road, if the difference in cost or installation difficulty is not significant, go for the bigger 3-row unit.

-Max

yomamasmama

Will there be any negative consequences of using the two row Greddy FMIC with a T78? Will the FMIC be only good up to 15 psi?

80-CU.IN.T

MAX IS CORRECT ABOUT PRESSURE DROP / BOOST. ALSO THE MORE SURFACE AREA THE BETTER," TO A POINT"

I PURCHASED THE RX7 FASHION KIT. BY THE TIME I MODIFY THE END TANKS AND CHANGE THE PLUMBING TO 2.5" (I AM RUNNING A VERY SMALL TURBO-APEX RX-6), IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER TO HAVE STARTED FORM SCRATCH. NOTHING WRONG WITH THE KIT. JUST NOT WHAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE. "MY FAULT."

TO INSTALL THE KIT, A MAIN FRONT SUPPORT MEMBER MUST BE REMOVED. I DON'T THINK THE INTERCOOLER IS DESIGNED TO BE USED AS A STUCTURAL SUPPORT MEMBER. STREET DRIVING SHOULD BE OK BUT ALOT OF AUTOCROSS WILL PROBABLY CAUSE IT TO CRACK. I COULD BE WRONG, JUST MY OPINION.

"I AM REINFORCING MY FRONT END."

IT ALSO SITS VERY CLOSE TO THE GROUND. IF YOU PLOW WEEDS OCCATIONALLY WHICH I HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DO, YOU WILL MODIFY THE COOLER ALONG WITH THE BTM OF YOUR BUMPER WHICH WILL PROBABLY END YOUR DAY.

"I AM NOT BAD MOUTHING THIS KIT. SO DON'T BASH ME. IT IS IN MY OPINION A GOOD STREET KIT."

IF I HAD A CHANCE TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN I WOULD PURCHASE A LARGE STOCK MOUNT. MAXIMUM ENGINE COOLING, VERY LITTLE FABRICATION, NO EXTRA WEIGHT HANGING OFF THE FRONT OF THE CAR AND WHEN YOU PLAY BUMPER TAG YOU PROBABLY CAN MAKE IT HOME UNDER BOOST.

IF YOU ARE WORIED ABOUT COOLING A STOCK MNT ON THE STREET, PUT A FAN ON IT. YOU CAN ALWAYS TAKE IT OFF FOR TRACK USE.

JUST MY $.02-

twinturboteddy

Putting a fan to the intercooler is a very beneficial thing to do.

For instance in LA this past weekend temperatures reached high 90's probably into the 100's. While sitting in traffic and runnin my radiator fans on high for about an hour my water temps never went about 92 C degrees. Leveled out to 88 C degrees at one point.

But the majority of the time my air intake temps as indicated on my Power FC soared to 76C. That is very hot.

Front Mount's lack the room to be able to mount a decent size fan on while stock mount's have that room.

I am running stock intercooler and stock turbos right now.

Another benefit of stock mount.

C-westin'FD

The XS engineering FMIC for the FD is way better than rx7fashion. The end tanks are better too. It uses the same core, Apexi GTR core. They have a photo of it on their website. Check it out its awesome.BTW thats what i have.