Quick question, I used a graphite gasket from Pineapple racing this winter between the twins and the manifold as I went rich mans NS, and ended up have a slight exhaust leak because I must not have torqued a bolt all the way in (it was a tight fit for the torque wrench and I was doing this with the engine in the car). The question I have, is this. I put about 400 miles on the car since doing this and I noticed the exhaust leak over time as the bolt loosened further. Since the exhuast leak through the area of the gasket do I need to pull the turbos completely off and replace the gasket again (exhaust temps potentially destroy the gasket??) or would I be ok to just go ahead and re torque my nuts and the 2 loose bolts.

I just went out and bought a better torque wrench to work in the tight space, so this doesn't happen again, but curious on the forums thoughts on the life of the gasket.

-D

 

I asked Rob Golden about those and he said they don't hold up well to a lot of pressure, which he said meant a car with a catalytic converter. My car has a cat but I went ahead and tried it anyway since the gasket was not expensive. It ended up lasting about 1000 mi before it blew out.

When I took it apart there was no doubt the gasket blew out and I was slightly surprised to see just how thin the gasket was after I had torqued down the joint. It was much thinner than a sheet of paper. I think it might be a good product if you follow Rob's advice. But I'm confused how adding a cat is too much pressure at the downpipe gasket, yet they also make these gaskets for the hot side of the turbos where there's a lot more pressure.

I'm doing well now with a replacement stock gasket and new hardware.

Dave

 

Based on this (as it is the turbo to the manifold gasket in question) I am going to go ahead and put a stock metal one back in. I used the metal downpipe gasket and it was fine, but i am guessing this gasket is shot also. I am boosting 14psi so I guess I am not surprised.

 

I bought these but after examining them, I felt that they were not strong enough to stand up to turbo exhaust. They don't seem to have structural integrity to withstand exhaust leaks between the metal parts. I elected to reuse my existing metal OEM gaskets (30K on them) and it's fine since.

 

With graphite gaskets, you're supposed to re-torque them down after the FIRST HEAT CYCLE

Odds are you didn't do that, and the gasket was destroyed.

Are you running excessive boost?

Tuning can cause backfires (really hard on graphite gaskets as well)

A cat can cause exhause back pressure (not something that get mentioned enough in my opinion)

Pineapple now offers a reinforced graphite gasket.

 

We've had issues with them at the shop the one time we tried them. A stock twin R&R on the house isn't fun..... suffice it to say we stick with OEM gaskets for this application.

 

I'll have to look these up. Mine was not the reinforced design.

I did not retorque after the first heat cycle.

 

Nor did I retorque. shame on me. Well I guess I learned my lesson here. Thanks everyone.

 

I bought The PR Manifold gaskets also (they seemed very sturdy) and will examine them when I remove the turbos later this week. Hopefully all will be ok here. I will recheck all my torque settings. Since I will be taking the turbos off, . . . again . . . I need to drain my coolant and oil. I will take a picture of what the gaskets look like when I get them all off. This is not PRs fault, but mine for not re-torquing...

 

Pictures of the reinforced graphite gaskets

Reinforced gasket material next to non reinforced material



Said Gaskets



just check out the Pineapple website (I'll get the ban hammer if I post links, prices or part numbers)

 

^ these are the ones I bought... So Prometheus, do you think if I torque them down to spec again, I may be ok? I only went about 400-500 miles on them, but I did have a few Dyno pulls done ( the tick was noticable then). Or do you think I probably destroyed them due to the heat?

 

These things are failing extremely quickly, and I for one am not buying that re-torquing them will miraculously turn 1,000 mile gaskets into 75,000 mile gaskets. The OEM pieces are very thick and sturdy.

Nothing against Pineapple, I use many of their products including their HD coolant o-rings on many builds.

 

Graphite gaskets are like ceramic apex seals.

Once they have been compromised, they can't be salvaged.

Having a cracked manifold can also cause them to fail.

When you remove your turbos, inspect the manifold for cracks.

Once you hear the tick, it's gone.

Sorry man.

 

The OEM gasket is a pretty nice piece, in fact pineapple is working on further more refining their graphite gaskets to utalize a stainless steel ring to take the pressure abuse better, but the reinforced unit as well as the original unit work just fine if properly applied and retorqued after the first heat cycle.

The new pineapple steel ring reinforced graphite gasket will be in the summer parts lineup.

Rich, I know your just looking out for another community member.

Wish there were more guys like that around.

 

FWIW, I love your air pump delete idler pulley

 

Thanks!

I'd still like to see tweak it racing's unit, heard it was a nice peace.

On subject:

I'll post pictures of the new gaskets as soon as they are available.

 

I have a set of the graphite gaskets here. Mine are the reinforced kind, also. They feel pretty sturdy.

There was a link floating around with mixed reviews of the gaskets. Some were speculating that they required more torque in order to get a proper seal. There was no mention of what additional torque was required nor is there any information on the PR website.

I picked up a pair to give 'em a try when I get this thing put back together.

 

Manifold to turbo 27-32 lbft. (assuming you are using the OEM M10 fastening hardware)

Retorqued after first heat cycle (put what you have to in order to get the cat to idle up to operating temp, then apply torque again when it is hot (be careful not to burn yourself)

 

I'd also reccomend the Copper clad manifold bolts.

 

thanks! I'll keep it in mind. Should be sometime at the end of this month or so. Got lots of parts sitting here that needs to be put back on.

 

Am I supposed to disassemble everything to get at all of the gaskets again? I bought the graphite gaskets for between the motor and manifold, manifold and turbos, and turbo to downpipe.

Should I just forget it and reuse the stock ones now?

 

It is your decision, I can't make it for you.

Think of it like this:

do you know how to work on your own car?

Better question: do you like working on your car?

Are you running a restrictive exhaust?

Are you running ecxessivly rich? (popping & backfires)

condition of your manifold & turbos?

These gaskets are a great piece (when used for the proper application) and with proper fixturememt of supporting modifications.

Like I said, these are compareable to ceramic seals.

They are very fragile if improperly applied.

If you are running a rich tune, with cracked manifolds
& a stock exhause (I'd go with the OEM gaskets)

because fresh OEM gaskets are strong enough to withstand neglect.

 

I also have a set of the gaskets (non-reinforced version) for between the exhaust manifold and turbo manifold. This hardware is physically inaccessible to re-torque. In theory if you have all 3 gaskets between the block and downpipe, you'd either need to make a 3 stage installation (3 heat cycles) to torque and re-torque without taking apart any of the new gaskets.

Do you have a recommendation for when the hardware is not accessible for a re-torque? Or is the re-torquing step only necessary for the downpipe hardware?

David

 

I'm not at the shop to ask Rob.

I'll see what he says, and post up the info.

Although, 3 seperate steps to properly install gaskets would be a nightmare.

I'll get you that info ASAP

 

dgeesaman, you took the words out of my mouth.... Interested to hear the steps here.

If I would have left the heat shield off the turbos, from underneath, the Turbo to Mani bolts would be accessible (albeit tight) however the Manifold to Engine Bolts are completely inaccessible.