Hudson RT

Hi everyone. I have a few questions. I currently road race a 1993 Viper and am looking for a lighter more nimble car, but still want some
hp. Here are my questions;

1-What is the weight of this car in stock trim, and how much weight can be lost? I am looking to be around 2500lbs or lighter.

2-Does anyone road race (not autox) their car? If so, does the car handle well? (handling characteristics, twitchy rear, heavy nose...)

3-What is the weight distribution? (50/50, 60/40, f/r)

Thanks in advance for any info.

rynberg

A stock R-model ("higher performance" model) weighs 2800 lbs. Most typically modded FDs shed at least 50 lbs off of this. So, typically, you would be looking at about 2750 lbs or less. Of course, really modifying the car by removing the P/S, A/C, Double throttle, rats nest, emissions, etc., you will lose more. I would guess you would have to have aftermarket seats and maybe strip some of the interior to get to 2500 lbs w/fuel.

Many of us road race. Some of the forum notables are Ptrhahn, Crispyrx7, SleepR1, MaxCooper, and RedRotor1. There are many others (don't be offended if I left you out!) but that's a list of regular forum contributors.

The weight distro is 50/50 and the car handles pretty damn neutral from the factory, although 93s have slightly more oversteer due to a larger rear anti-roll bar. For serious road racing, you would have an aftermarket coil-over setup with aftermarket sway bars anyway.

You will find that a modded FD takes a lot less power than your Viper to run the same speeds, due to much better aerodynamics and much lighter weight.

Hudson RT

OOOhhh. Sounds like serious potential. 2500lbs or less is a definate possibility. Thanks for the info, but now I have to ask a stupid question. What is FD, how is that different from R?

rynberg

FD is short for FD3S, which is the Mazda factory code for the 3rd gen RX-7.

For 93-94, there were 3 models: base, touring, and R-model.

look here for more info:

http://www.k-rad.com/3genfaq

fastcarfreak

man you made the right decision to looki into an RX7 for a replacement for your viper. With little money, relative to the cost your viper, you can have a car that looks better, is faster, more solid, and can handle sooo much better. Welcome to the RX7 world!!
Adam

kyle@insight

The R model (R1 in 93 and R2 in 94) has a few things the other models don't. Here's a list of differences off the top of my head, I'll probably leave a few things off.

-The R1 has dual oil coolers as opposed to one.

-The R1 has stiffer factory shocks

-R1 has lighter weight cloth seats.

-no cruise control, no sunroof

-front chin spoiler, rear spoiler

There's a few more things I can't think of right now but they handle a little better but they cost a grip more for a good one.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

You could skip all the guesswork and just buy Brad Barber's very well prepared RX thats ready for the track with virtually everything you'd ever want to do already done. Check the RX7s for sale section...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Hudson RT:

It sounds like you're very new to the RX-7. My apologies if what I say sounds ignorant, but I think it's worth saying.

One thing you NEED to keep in mind is that this twin-turbo rotary engine is totally unique in every way compared to a piston engine. Whether you plan to drive it stock or mod it, you will need to learn all about it. There is zero tolerance for mistakes in the mod process, and a mistake usually ends up in an engine or turbo rebuild.

Many excellent piston-engine mechanics/drivers will make mistakes dealing with a rotary because certain critical issues don't even matter with pistons, so they wouldn't think to ask.

It's not that the FD is not capable of being a sturdy racer, and it's not that I think you won't take care of it, in fact I think this is a great car for your application. But you must know up front this car requires more homework and rotary specialist mechanic work to get there. But now you're here, amongst the rotorheads, so you're safe

Dave

BMike

Front strut tower brace, larger than most models rear sway bar <i believe the 93 R1 has the largest available stock in the us>. Also R1s never have cruise, bose, automatic, rear windshield wiper or sunroof, though ive heard some came optioned that way, a normal order R1 only comes with one standard set of options. Also they came with better tires I believe, at this point in the game it probably doesnt mater as im sure almost all r's have new tires.

EDIT: I just noticed the original poster is from Hudson, OH, I'm from Akron myself, if you want to check out an R1 sometime I'd be happy to show you mine when im done putting it back together hopefully later this month.

redrotorR1

Depending on the model, ~2800 lbs. Full exhaust and stripping the interior will get you into the low 2700 - high 2600 range. Racing seats, lightweight drivetrain, lightweight wheels and Hoosiers (or another lightweight tire) should get you close to 2500lbs. Losing the AC and power steering will net you another ~150-200 lbs loss. However, some of us find the AC a necessity (Texas heat). Getting any lighter than the mid 2400lb range might be difficult. But compared to your Viper, 2400ish lbs is like adding another 150HP.

There's a few of us FD owners who do actually race their cars. I avoid true wheel-to-wheel racing because A) licensing is a PIA and expensive; B) SCCA is not very turbo-car friendly; and C) I'm on a budget (3rd gen fenders are expensive!). Time trials and one or two club racing events ... that's the route I follow.

Otherwise, yes, the car handles VERY well. The stock brakes are like boat anchors ... stomp on it, and you'll be amazed how fast you come down from 120mph. And then you can go add some Brembos. The chassis responds well to suspension upgrades. Springs are a must .... swaybar(s) also. As usual, shocks are everything; but you already knew that. The rear can be a little twitchy, but race rubber makes it much more predictable. Tune in some toe out and the car feels like a go-kart. Steering ratio is a little slow ... but shouldn't be an issue for road racing.


50/50. And it's pretty hard to upset that balance more than 1-2%. Overall, it's a fun car to toss around. A well setup FD will dominate most other cars. And as a lightweight car, you'll find it capable of things you weren't previously able to do .... turning under hard braking, REALLY late braking, much earlier throttle out of corners. The only unfortunate thing is that there really is no class for you to compete with other than 'unlimited' classes ... basically, who has the most money classes. Give it a try.

SleepR1

You can't do much better than a Viper for more horsepower. The Viper's hp-to-weight ratio is much better than the FD Rx7's (~7 lbs-per-hp for Viper, 12 lbs-per-hp for stock FD rx7). Also the Viper is naturally aspirated (much more reliable, powerwise), and has loads of torque. As I recall from my brief warm-up drive of a student's GTS Coupe, the Viper has outstanding turning and cornering ability. Brakes were also very good (except no ABS). I dunno, if given a choice, I'd probably stay with the Viper R/T LOL Tell you what, I'd be willing to switch with you for a few sessions @ your next track lapping session LOL

Having posted the above, Brad Barber's well-sorted FD Rx7 would be a good deal for you. It's a single turbo version (the factory FD Rx7s come with twin Hitachi turbos run in sequential mode). Brad's car is stripped down to <2500 lbs. Brad has not dyno'd his beast, but it apparently makes 400+ hp @ the wheel...

Here's the thread on Brad Barber's Yellow Beast:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=196070

rex4x

I heard that the 93 R1 is lighter (by 50 pounds or less) than the R2

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I find that unlikely. It is possible the 95 R2 weighs more than the 93 R1 and 94 R2 because of the larger R143a A/C system.

Dave

SleepR1

Brad Barber's FD Rx7 on Ebay. I'd buy it if I had the lute

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2419462509

Hudson RT

Thanks guys this is way more of a response than I expected or got from other car models forums. It shows that you love the RX7, and it must be a hell of a car to make you feel that way.

dgeesaman,
I drive cars, I don't work on them Besides the RX7 store, one of the forums sponsors, is 50 miles from my house. I'll pay them to fix it if (after) I break it

SleepR1,
Wow, you are the first person I've heard say the viper handles well at the track. Okay, it handles pretty good, but it is way too heavy to handle great. Full race, no interior, one seat.... 3100lbs! I could tear my car apart and lose 33% of its value and only lose 300lbs. My car is known for brake fade. Too much hp is not a good thing. It is so hard to be smooth when getting back on the gas in my car. 480 ftlbs of torque just compound the problem. From what I've seen on this forum 7-9 lbs/hp is not hard to attain in the RX7. To each his own, but I was surprised by your response.

I checked out Brads car (on ebay?). I can't blame him for wanting $30k, but he will have a tough time getting that much. I guess it's a mental thing, but people would rather buy a partially modified car for 2/3 that and invest the rest a little at a time. At least that's how I feel. Guess I believe I can build that car for less, probably kidding myself.

Again thanks all this is great info. I am going to look at a car tonight. 93 R1 320hp at the wheels, cage, and suspension mods.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Good luck with it, man. I'm sure you'll really enjoy your 7 when you purchase it....