Over the past month and a half or so, I've been tearing down my car (mods in sig) to replace the LIM gasket (blown paper piece of garbage) and the FPD (fuel smell on start up and pooling on engine). While I was at it I decided to go full non-seq (cut out flappers, port wastegate, etc) and remove the a/c, air pump, acv, and cruise control. After getting everything back together last night, she won't start. Lights come on, cranks like a champ, and even acts like its going to turn over but doesn't quite make it. Opening the throttle doesn't seem to change anything. I did prime the fuel system before firing it up and heard it pressurize so I think the fuel pump is a ok. The spark plugs and wires were replaced in the last 4k miles and seemed on tight (magnacores, and NGK 7/9 plugs). Battery reads 12 volts and change with a multimeter. I am on the stock ECU but I did put in 330 ohm 1/2 watt resistors in the 8 required plugs.

Question #1: Do we have a faq troubleshooter for no starts? I couldn't find one.

Question #2: I'm only 90% sure I got the right fuel hard lines hooked up to the FPD and the FPR. Which one is which and could a swap of these lines be causing my problem?

I'm planning on tackling it tonight, so what should I be trying? Is it flooded? Any thoughts/suggestions?

P7k

 

So it almost started but didnt? Or did it just crank and crank with no change in sound? If it almost started, you just need to clean your plugs and it should fire right up. They can foul a lot faster than 4k miles especially if you just started the car up and shut it off quickly the last time you moved it.

 

sounds like the fuel lines might be switched, especially since you're not positive they're on right. i did this on accident when i put my motor back in. had the same problem. switched the lines and it fired right up.

 

When I cranked it, you could hear it trying to turn over. It was like fluttering changes, plus you could see the tach respond at the same time. Just couldn't seem to make it all the way.

 

Happen to know which is which? I connected the FPR to the hard line that is higher and closer to the firewall, and the FPD to the lower further one. These are direct connections since I chopped the hard lines attached to the vac rack out for simplicities sake.

 

well, i could be wrong. i was just suggesting it might be the problem. theres only one feed & one return. without having my car in front of me (it's in FL and i'm in NYC right now) i couldn't tell you which line is which. when i had them switched, i just reached down and swapped them and the car fired up after that.

anyone have a diagram?

 

I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were wrong (thank you for your response/help). It seems likely that with my lack of confidence in the hook-up coupled with your prior experience that it's probably a fuel line mix up, but I know that if it doesn't fix it I'm going to continue wonder which way it should actually go. I was just wondering if you knew off the top of your head which was which. Any gurus out there know or know how to ID the hard lines and which fuel rail they go to? Will I be able to follow the hard lines back to ID them? Is the FPR the input for fuel and the FPD the return or vice versa?

 

Er, if you go through the trouble of removing enough sensors & solenoids that were originally associated with the seq. turbo setup, you're going to need an aftermarket ECU, like a Power FC, because the stock ECU will not know you removed these things, and will assume they're malfunctioning, and send the car into a 'limp-home' mode (no boost or throttle response above a certain rpm) and it'll just crackle when you try to push it.

Probably not immediately related to the no-start issue, but may help (if it hasnt been mentioned 50, 000,000 times on this forum already! )

 

I'm not planning on running over 10 psi of boost (main cat in place, ported wastegate, and MBC), so I don't need a PFC. The 8 solenoids associated with the solenoid rack which will throw a code if not hooked up all received a 330 ohm 1/2 watt resistor coupled with male spade terminals. I did it closely following the instructions contained in the full non-seq write-up in the tech section of the rotary resurrection website.

 

Fuel supply goes to FPD, and the FPR connects to the return.

 

pull the leads. I bet it's flooded.

 

Nice. Any body know which hard line by the firewall (closer to firewall vs further from firewall) is the supply vs return?

 

If it was flooded would I see or smell gas in there if I pulled the lead plugs? Sorry for the noob question, but my car's never been flooded before.

 

you'll see gas on the plugs when you pull em.

 

Those 3 fuel lines should have yellow dots on the hoses (mazda paint dots from factory) and if the steel lines still have their chromate coating in good condition, you'll see yellow dots on them that correspond to the hoses. Of course, some FD's I've worked on, have some of the dots rubbed off, but if you really look, you might still be able to see them..

 

Three fuel lines? I'm assuming your talking about the hard lines integrated into the vac rack of which two are fuel lines and the other is a hard line for the emission canister (plus the one for coolant from the rear iron to the wp but that's on the other side). These hard lines were deleted and I'm running the FPR/FPD hoses directly to the firewall hard lines (of which there are only two) under the brake booster thus my possible mix up issue. None the less, I'll check for some colored dots maybe it'll help sort this out.

 

All taken care of. Two things:

1) Pred was right, it was flooded. I pulled the leading plug on the rear rotor and while it wasn't wet per se, it certainly smelled like gas. The "5 sec turning it over with the throttle full - 5 sec turning it over off the throttle - repeat" trick got her started up. It was spewing smoke for what felt like an eternity.

2) To ID the fuel hard lines at the firewall definitively, I undid one of the lines, hooked up a spare piece of fuel line to that unoccupied line, ran the two loose hoses into a gatorade jug, hard wired the fuel pump, turned on the power, and watched which hose shot fuel. Long story short, for whom it may concern -

The fuel hard line closest to the firewall under the brake booster is the return line which hooks up to the FPR, while the hard line further from the firewall is the supply line which hooks up to the FPD.

Hope that helps somebody in the future.

 

Was is just being flooded or did it have a fuel line mixup? It'll help clear up some uncertainty for someone who may have the same problem.

Would appreciate your comments in this issue.

 

Originally, when it was cranking and almost starting, the fuel lines were correct. So I'm assuming that it was just flooded then. When I swapped the lines to the wrong configuration as a test, the car cranked just fine but showed no signs of actual starting.

 

Yes, it couldn't flood without fuel.

 

I was not saying that I flooded it when the fuel lines were swapped. What I was saying that I can't know if it was originally flooded causing the almost-start-no-start or if the plugs were fouled as David suggested and I flooded it during my initial cranking attempts while the fuel lines were hooked up correctly. In addition, I'm not sure that fuel doesn't flow if the lines are hooked up backwards. Are there valves in the lines to stop reverse fuel flow making it impossible to flood the engine with them swapped?

 

Happy to see you got it started.

Before you changed the filter, did you purge the system of gas/pressure?
Every time you change fuel filters you have to unscrew the gas cap. pull the ignition fuses and try to crank the car. It will turn over a few times and then die. This burns up all the gas in the lines so when you take out the filter, you don't have a gas water fall spilling everywhere.

then you change the filter, then you prime the system. Then it you start it.

Get familiar with flooded Rotaries because it will be your starting issue 9/10 times lol.

Before you shut your car off, make sure it's at operating temp. Or if you shut it off earlier, rev the car to 3K~ish and turn the key off. So next time you start the car, you wont have a flooding issue.

 

I didn't change the fuel filter, but before the car went under the knife I released the fuel pressure by opening the gas cap and running the car with the fuel pump relay out until it died (as per rob robinette's site). I always run the car until full operating temp before I cut it off to avoid flooding. If I don't have enough time to wait that long, I just take my explorer where ever I'm heading. I suppose that's why I've never had my car flood and why I suspect that my original issue was fouled plugs (as suggested by David) which caused a no start and lead to me flooding the car with my start attempts.

 

haha my bad. I think it was the other guy that did the fuel filter. I told him the same thing.

Foul plugs are common. I change mine every oil change. Don't risk it

I run 9's on all around. NGK coppers.

 

Coppers huh? Any specific reason to run those and not the plats? I run NGK-BURPs 7s and 9s which I change quite frequently (< 5,000 miles)