RotorJoe

Ok, First I tried pulling the car to make her start. I ended up pulling her behind a mini van in reverse at about 10mph. The rear of the 7 was the only place I could attach a towrope without damaging anything.

Q: Does reverse build enough engine RPM to start the car (I think it does and wouldn’t’ t be much different from 2nd)?

Either way we pulled it around for about ten minutes. I heard a few puffs but not start. I then pulled the plugs and EGI fuse, along with the fuel pump fuse in the other fuse holder. Cranked the car for about 20 secs. Cleaned the plugs and reinstalled them. Put the fuses back in and tried to start her. It came very close but no start. It was soo close that it killed the starter and I think one rotor chamber combusted. After that it was flooded again.

This time I just pulled my fuses (EGI and Fuel Pump) and cranked her. No start. Put fuses back in and cranked her, No Start.

I have just ordered a set of new BUR9s all the way around (My car is pretty heavily modified and I have noticed better idle and running performance with these) and will try the unflood technique from the start.

Q: Why didn’t it start in reverse after pulling it soo long?

Q: I have a PFC and does the pedal to the floor trick cut off the gas to the injectors (I don’t think so)?

Q: With the PFC/datalogit does changing the cranking mS time (lowering the value), would that help me unflood the car (just a thought)?

I am also going to check for leading coil spark problems, although I don’t think this is the issue. The car started just fine three hours prior to flooding.

I was unsure where to put this thread since I am asking questions that obtain to 3rd gens in general and questions about the PFC.

Any suggestions would help
Thanks

RotorJoe

Another question: I have this rotorteck (sp?) stuff that came with the car. It is a lube that you pour into the gas tank to lube the apex seals (small bottle). Would that be the same as ATF or 2 stroke engine oil? I almost think it would do the same as ATF in this case.

cavellm

Try taking the plugs out and crank it for a little bit (may want to hook jumper cables up so you have enough power to do this).

Then get some kind of baster/syringe, and inject a tablespoon or so of ATF directly into the leading chambers.

Put the plugs back in and floor the gas, then crank it. This got my severely flooded car to start.

RotorJoe

Yeah, I have never owned an auto before, so I will swing by the auto parts store and puck up a bottle. I am also replacing the spark plugs.

Do you (or you guys) know if this rotorteck stuff is the same as ATF in this case? The rotorteck is an apex seal lube that is an alternative to two stroke engine oil in the gas. I would feel more comfortable putting that (or even 2 stroke oil) down the UIM then ATF.

cavellm

Don't put it down the manifold, put it in the spark plug holes.

It's perfectly safe. Nothing to worry about. Almost every rotary specific web site lists this as the definitive unflooding procedure.

DCrosby

What does it do !? Increase Evaporation, or how does it aid in un-flooding !?

iceman4357

iTrader: (2)

find a lowered truck and get on the highway at 40, put it in 2nd and pop start the bitch. It doesnt like it but it should work. My friend had to do it with his 7

RotorJoe

The lowered truck still will not help. I can't even get my foot under the front lip . Not to mention that my IC is right there. I don't think I can drag it from the front.

I didn't have time yesterday to go through the unflood procedure, but I did buy new plugs. Tonight I will try to get her going. I have a appt. for a compression check up on Thurs so I better get her going.

RotorJoe

I went through the whole unflood procedure three times. This is removing plugs, remove EGI fuse and Fuel Pump Relay, crank engine 15 sec, pour 1 oz of ATF in each UIM nipple, the crank some more, clean plugs and start. It didn’t start but wanted to the first time. So after trying a few times, I decided to start over. The second time the car started but I could not keep it running for more then 10 sec. The third time it started and I was able to keep it running for about a minute. There was lots of white smoke and ran very lumpy. But it stalled. No matter how much gas I gave it, it didn’t matter. I was at 70% duty cycle at 3000 RPM. It started to fall in RPM, more gas didn’t help so I feather some out and bam, it stalled. Those are new plugs all the way around and I verified that I have spark at all four. Tonight I will try all over again. This time I am going to aim for 4000 RPM and see how it goes.

Any suggestions?

Damn, what a pain in the ***.

RotorJoe

I can get her started but I can't keep her running. I then have to go through the whole procedure over.

Just frustrating.

shawnk

Sounds like you have more than a flooding problem. What happened the last time you drove it? Did you do any mods or changes?

Shawn

RotorJoe

No mods and no changes. Car ran fine when I parked it.

What happen was I started an pulled it around back to wash her. This was the first start of the day so I was letting it warm up. I am low on gas (although I still have about 4 gallons left in the tank) so when it hit 78 C I shut her off, thinking that that was warm enough. After the wash and wax (about 3 hours) I went to start her. She started but ran lumpy and died. It has been flooded since.

Today I am going to add gas (although I don't think I am out, due to the smell in the engine bay and the way the plugs look after I pull them) and try again. I have seen the needle lower and have still had four gallons left in the tank.

I had a compression appt but now that I could not get the car running I had to cancel it. I do hear that the motor has compression when I crank the car without the plugs in. With help I can feell the compression as the rotors turn. True not exact science but I don't think I have a compression issue either.

I think I need a tow truck to pick my frontend up and drag my *** fopr about two block. My first gen was flooded like this once. It took being draged for a few laps around a parking lot tell it go it's rhythm back.

mad_7tist

if you had a pressure gague you would be able to tell if it was leaking down due to a open injector

RotorJoe

expalin more please

redxseven

I had the same problem a few years ago, multiple attempts at un-flooding. On advice of one of those cheesy Saturday morning call in "auto-help" shows, I changed the oil and it fired right up. Seems that the oil was so diluted after serious flooding that I couldn't get the apex seals to um, seal...

RotorJoe

Then I will change the oil this weekend too.

I thought I had it last night. I had her started and running. She hit 60 C and stalled out. I was able to watch the smoke clear up some (I think this was due to me running through all the Rototeck Pettit Racing Apex Seal Lube I put in) and go to a blueish/black look (still thick and very rich in gas, I can see black spit marks on the driveway). I had her held at 3000 RPMs when it just started to fade and no amount of throttle input helped (less or more). I was then out of Rototeck and could not start her again. I have ordered some more and will try ATF in the mean time. This time I may hold her at 4000 RPMS.

One question: What is a good RPM to aim for when starting a flooded car? What would be the higest rev you would go to?


Thanks for the input, I'll get through this.
The shitty thing is now I am starting to think my motor is blown, but I know that is very unlikely since it started soo well right before I washed it.

RotorJoe

Helps the rotor build compression at low RPMs (250 - 300). Seals things up better.

RotorJoe

Well, I changed the oil, redxseven was right, I smelled gas and the consistency wasen't the same. I then went through the whole process again. It started and ran for about a minute and then stalled. I was doing everything I could think of to keep her running. After that I pulled the plugs and cranked her a few times. I then pulled my O2 sensors and am let her dry out. Gas/oil is dripping out of each exhaust flange. O2 sensors are black and covered with gas/oil. Now that it sat for two days (with the sun beating down on the engine bay) I will try again. oh I will probably change the oil one more time.

Thanks

mad_7tist

souds like you have a leaking injector

RotorJoe

The only way to test fuel injectors is to pull them and have them flow and bench tested or is there a way to test them in car?

I am starting to lean towards this direction. Let me know if this makes since? Could the injector be leaky with the car off and on, but once the car is on the injector does not flow, only leaks, therefore the car stalls?

Also with the PFC, does it read the actual injector duty cycle or what it is trying for?

I am also starting to question my fuel filter and pump. I look into borrowing a fuel pressure gauge.

mad_7tist

you can put a fuel pressure gague on the feed line. watch it build pressure. clamp the feed line behind the gague. clamp the return line. now you have fuel at pressure xx closed off in the injector lines with a gague measuring it. if it drops an injector is leaking. the fpr or the pulsation dampener may be also but that is a seperate prob as you are flooding out

no i think when you unflood the car after it stalls it is bleeding out the fuel pressure so it stops leaking and it will start. but under pressure it leaks and will stall the car and re-flood it

all duty cycle is measured as what the ecu is trying for.

RotorJoe

Does it matter if my elbow to my TB is removed while I am doing this?

I don't think it needs to be on for idle and revving without boost. The reason why I think it does not need to be attached at this point is because I have blown off one of my intake boost cupplers and had no boost. The car ran just fine (idle and revving) but I just had zero boost. Just double checking to make sure I am not doing anything stupid.

RotorJoe

No the TB elbow does not need to be on.

Well I got it. It turned out to be a bad boost sensor. It was reading 4.8 volts all the time. Durning crank and while the car was running. I am not sure how I missed that in the beginning. Either way I went through the sensor check steps in the Mazda book for the boost sensor and foung that it never showed 1.2 to 1.4 at 0 psi. Swapped it out, went though the deflooding procedure without the ATF and WD40. Boom fired right up. Blew smoke a bit then cleared up. Now she runs fine.

Thanks

spurvo

GOOD FOR YOU!!! Pesky assed sensors...