kwikrx7

I did some pulls today with these things. They feel about like my stock twins at 12-13 psi up high. They are slugs getting going. Let's just say that 10 psi isn't their sweet spot. I have a feeling when I get dynoed at 15 psi with datalogit that I'll sent into orbit. With the stock turbos I got full boost by 3400-3500 rpms. I now get it at 4200-4500 rpms in 4th gear. With some boost control and higher boost I'd imagine I'd see full boost by 4K rpms - just have to wait and see. No leaks so far. If bryan clips your wheels then I'd think about staying sequential because so far it feels like a T-78 spooling

SPOautos

Well, thats really not too bad, if they are only going to end up about 500rpms slower than stock twins. You mentioned them spooling like a T78....I wouldnt be suprised if the 2 together are as big as a T78 hehe

Did you make a manual boost controler yet? Close it off alot, I'd start about 2 turns from closed and make adjustments from there.

BTW - Do you have a mp??? What all mods do you have

STEPHEN

black99

He has a long *** mod list.. lol

Did bryan say anything about what range(psi?) would be their "sweet spot"??

Hopefully like you said a boost controller, some higher boost pressure and some tuning will hopefully help. I'm interested to know how "hard" they hit..

kwikrx7

Oh forgot my sig..going to dyno either Thursday or next Tuesday. Hopefully when I get tuned for 15 psi the boost will come on sooner. No MP here - been there done that - too loud. Hi-flo cat suits me fine

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Good info Barry, so I guess you went non sequential and aren't used to the lag yet? On the j-pec, sequential, I get 12 psi by 2800 rpms. I've went to the dyno with the jpec but I know have a slipping clutch at hi rpms, with just the turbos, no tuning other than the same kind of tuning with my old stock of taking out very small increments of fuel, I only made about 6 to 8 more hp at the same boost level with them. Grant I haven't used a wideband to dial them in at 12 and 14.7 max, but i didn't use a wideband before either. 6 to 8 isn't much for the cash I spent but the car does boost 200 rpms earlier than before and I think the potential is there for more HP on the top end compared to the stock twins. Dyno time and more money will tell.

Tim

reza

kwikrx7,

Check the precontrol line.
I increase my turbo response by putting a valve on the precontrol line.

Reza

kwikrx7

Tim, I was non-sequential before with my stockers and I actually liked it. Both would spool pretty quickly and I had full boost by under 3500 rpms in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears. Dave at KDR recommended a Profec B to help with spooling faster but $315 compared to $10 for Home Depot Racing valve should get me about the same response. Also with datalogit he said he could probably do some tuning to help. Dave was comparing it to Gordon Monson's FD with a T78 saying at 10 psi it's doggish until you get to 10 psi but turn it to 18 psi and it's twice as fast getting there. Like I said hopefully these wheels are just barely starting to work at 10 psi. You can tell between 5 and 6K rpms that they just want to shred the cars tires but are limited. I'll keep you posted.

xplicit7

i don't know why you just didn't get a t78?bryans turbos
are overpriced and from what i have heard so far slow
spoolin etc..

SPOautos

Hmm, dont know where you heard that. He has better prices than anyone. You should probably compare his prices to other places before making such a wrong statement. The slow spool for this set of turbos might be due to wg control......they are however about the same size as a T78 when you add them together so for them to be slow than stock is more than understandable.

Barry, have you done the manual boost control yet??? If not that could be the problem, the wastegate is much larger than the stock, it could probably use some adjusting.

STEPHEN

reza

I have bnr basic rebuild.
What I find is that since the wastegate is ported. It flows more, that means even the precontrol has to be close further, so that the primary turbo spools faster too.
So on home depot control, its about 1/2 turn open from close on wastegate, and about 1/4 turn open from close on precontrol.
I have to basically, close the wastegate more and close the precontrol more to make it 10-8-10.
Now the first turbo spools a lot faster, and there is the normal dip to 8 psi on transition.

Reza

rotorbrain

heres a link to the page man. you should talk to bryan before making such a premature statement. your 12 posts explains it all though. the bnr twins are really nice. i really wish i hadve used them on my car instead of going with someone elses turbo kit and then never getting it. (HUFF) anyways, i would suggest bryans turbos to everybody who wants to stay twin before the other overpriced turbos.

kwik, when i got mine from bryan i seem to remember him saying something about 15 psi. he kept saying it. . . i figured 15 psi was "it". im sure youll find the gold at the end of that turbo-rainbow once you get higher boost numbers in there. especially with that datalogit being used to tune it. its a real piece of work.

paul

widebody2

Paul would you give me back the money I gave you for them. I might consider it. They have under 100 miles on them and about 10 good pulls at almost 1 bar.

widebody2

My opinion is still up in the air about them...Very loud and spool in about 5 times the time of stock seq. I feel like I'm sitting there counting minutes before the boost hits. As long as you keep the rpms real high there nice. I admit I was comming from seq so some of the lag is due to the fact that thy're parallel plus I had them ported. And about the power I really am not sure if there is much of a differnce or not. I'll race my buddy's stang that just edged me out up top while I was stock...then I'll write about the outcome.

SPOautos

sorry double post

artguy

you guys were told from the beginning that increasing the wheel size of those turbos as well as the shaft size would increase your lag time...at one point people were arguing about it from what i remember

spoautos...the turbo wheels combined might seem like the size of a t78 to you but I assure you that that stock manifold they are pumping through will restrict them to 400hp or less depending on his boost and tuning and fuel of course....unlike the t78.

non seq sucks teabag...I hate lag. fdracer has the same mods I do nearly but he has turbonetics upgrades like yours...he rode in my car last night and told me he has no where near the drivability that I do. he doesnt have the boost down low like the m2 set provides...granted he also runs non seq.

let us know how it goes barry...get that thing boosting...play with precontrol...

I really hope you get that car going to its potential...I had similar issues with the m2 turbos in that you have to operate them in their range of efficiency 14-20lbs...probably closer to 15lbs base...I ran 12 and it was doggy...ran 15 and zoom zoom zoom! hehe

jason

Ps...Im slowly getting progress tuning my car...found out that i need to pick up larger injectors to run the boost Im planning on tuning for. I am using the datalogit and a wideband to tune...simply have not found a tuner who has been able to help me AT ALL.

the new datalogit update has a function that reads each cels afr and gives you that data as you drive around...tis super easy to figure out where to add fuel now...but its a very very patient game...tuning is a slow process...but my car is running better now...sometimes if ya want it done right...even the maps from kdr were not done properly for my car...I uninstalled them and went back to my maps I am tuning myself.


j

kwikrx7

Well, time will tell, but if I had to do it over again (and if I wasn't selling my car this fall) I would have gone with the M2s and went back to sequential. Bryan is working with some new wheels that he says will boost faster and is also working on a dynamic seal project that should really prove to be exciting as far as spooling goes.
Jason, I'm sure you're driveability is awesome and I'm jealous. I'm sure there's nothing like those M2s sequential at 15+ psi. The nice thing is Bryan offered to make things right if I wasn't happy with the spooling - he stands behind his work and is willing to work with you - not too many people out there like that.
I wouldn't count these turbos out - like I said they take some tuning with the wastegate to make it right. If they put down 370-400 rwhp at 15 psi then they're worth it in my book. Most single turbos don't have full boost until after 4K and put down 400 rwhp may except a RX6.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Barry, I never did hear why your selling the car, so why are you? If you were selling it, why replace the turbos...were they crap or something. Hate to see ya sell it.

Tim

SPOautos

Yea, I understand that. I never said they would make as much overall power as a T78, for one you cant run the kind of boost with them as you can a T78.

I was basically talking about the size of the wheel and how that affects lag. If reality though the wheel isnt THAT much heavier than the stock wheel so it should be this bad. I think when we see some manual wg controlers installed to close down the wg its going to make a big difference.....hopefully anyway. If not, like Berry said, Brian stands behind them and already told them when the dynamic seal comes out he will upgrade them.

STEPHEN

artguy

yeah...i agree with some of that barry...tis good to have a shop that stands behind their work...I thought he told you he could get you to full boost by 3200-3400 rpms??

you should stick them to that...but we shall wait til you get it tuned right...its gonna take some good pfc tuning and good boost control and boost tuning. you could always go back to sequential...


keep us informed...I hope you get it right...Im wanting to see those things perform!!

good luck barry...we both have odd ducks in the turbos department...it takes a lot of patience to get it right...but when ya do..woo hoo!

Im getting closer by the day...added more fuel to all the lean cells today...will be getting all the lean cells to as close to 11.5 as i can...once i do that I will slowly back off on the rich cells...about a full week or so worth of tuning in the evenings to do it right I think. at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

PS...I dont know if you realize...but the 1300 cc injectors wont be enuff fuel for 400 hp...maybe 380-390 and that is pushing it. .max coopers site shows 394 fully maxed out. Im at 79 percent right now and Im only at 15lbs...granted Im running rich up top..very rich.

Im also hearing that that nippondenso pump that rp sells is not good for more than 400hp as they had told me...the single turbo guys seem to think Id be nuts to run that pump and those injectors at that kind of power level. Im going to have to sell my brand new pump and get the bosch..or get a second pump if i want to run 19-20 lbs for 400hp rwhp. will also have to get an aic and additional injectors or go with the fuel rail and the 1600s...

what a learning experience.


good luck boys...we definitely need it. hahah...see you at the finish.

j

kwikrx7

Well I've been running my stock 850s at 12-13 lbs of boost with the stock non-seq. turbos for over a year now. I'm sure that was putting down 330 or so rwhp which is maxed out. I've always thought that the fuel and injector department in the FD world is too pessimistic. Personally I've never heard of an FD failing because of injectors being too small. Even some single turbo guys running with the stock injectors and a denso fuel pump haven't had problems. But the 1300s will enable me to get to 15 lbs and that's about all I want to be at. Actually 3200-3400 rpms is where the stock non-seq turbos have full boost. Bryan figured on over 4K so he was correct.
Tim, I'm selling the car because I'm simplifying my life. The FD somewhat complicates my life and has given both my wife and I alot of headaches. Although I've replace everything there is to replace (that's major $$) it's time to move on - I know I'll miss it though. Plus, I want to move it before the RX8 comes since that will surely hurt the FD market. Once tuned it will be one of the nicer FDs in the area and they are a rarity around here. I'll keep tabs though on your car Jason as I'm curious as to where you'll end up with your M2s at 20 psi!!!!! Good luck!

rotorbrain

hey kwik, i might know some people in the tennessee area that would like to buy your car. i still cant wait to see what those turbos do though. please let us know.

paul

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, i'm still undecided between a single, or upgraded twins, in seq, or non-seq....I kid you not, sometime i lay awake at night pondering my different options. Such is life...... CJ

FEARED7

Hey Barry! You'd rather have M2's huh?? lol you can still put it back to sequential! before you have it properly tuned, please do not judge the turbos... I put some hard hours in those things and I am trying hard to improve them. From the last post I saw you handed an LS1 a new one at 10 psi. That isn't anywhere near the sweet spot. when you get to 15+ you better look out b/c you will have enough power to break some ****.

Later
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

JSpec

Any more impressions/comments on the Stage II turbos? I just sent mine in to Bryan and was wondering where the sweet spot should be. I was thinking of running 12-13 around town, with the occasional 14-15 for "spirted runs".