dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Hmm. I pulled my injectors and changed some solenoids last month, and I finally got it all back together yesterday. Car was generally running well before I started the job. New plugs also, fuel system primed. Coolant was refilled, needed burped. Aside from a CB, DP, and Efini YP, the car is all stock under the hood. All updated gaskets on the intake path, so major leaks are unlikely.

Started up fine, AWS immediately kicked it up to 2700, and I blipped it off. Coolant buzzer goes off, I cut the engine. Doh! I hadn't reclamped the top connection of the TB hose - no wonder it ate the coolant so fast. Top off coolant, connect hose, start again. A splash of coolant on the MAP, TPS, plug wires, and master cylinder, but no big deal, I think.

This time (started in R gear), the engine goes right to idle, but sound like it's got performance cams. Engine rocking pretty good. I'm a little freaked, but I back 15' out of the garage and shut if off so I can clean up the coolant mess. Rinse off everything that had coolant, disconnect MAP and TPS connectors and shake all water/coolant out. MAP hose, all UIM connections in place and secured. Pull the plugs, check them, they are clean and dry.

Restart car - again, idles around 1200rpm, sounding like a blown engine. Now the RPMs settle again until it dies. Ugh. Reset ECU, check plugs again, check plug wires. One last time, it turns over, goes to die, I give it throttle, hangs on for another second, then dies. I check plugs one last time, check all fuses under the hood, no ECU codes. Battery still shows 12.4v

I pulled the UIM this morning and aside from a slightly pinched hose leading to the ACV, nothing notable. Throwing a seal from starting the car? That's a scary thought. I had stuffed the LIM openings, but I guess anything can happen.

(There is one 'glitch' to note during the job: during the 12v to the harnes solenoid connectors (Ig: On) accidentally shorted something for a second that caused the fans to come on - I'm guessing it bumped 12v across the water pump housing or something. But it didn't seem to do anything other than warm up the harness connector a bit, so I figured it was ok.)

I'd appreciate suggestions. Searching suggested dashpot, TPS, intake leak, or blown engine. This is my plan of attack:

- verify rats nest connections

- reinstall UIM, TB, and elbow, do a compression test (won't be official, since the car won't run for 10s straight to get warm)

- check any other fuses I can find

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Probably too simple and obvious, but maybe hit all the electrical connections/sensors with some contact cleaner?

JDK

iTrader: (8)

I think you got most stuff covered, TPS,MAP, and make sure your vacuum line to the FPR is good and in place, If thats all good start trouble shooting your elec. ( soleniods, fuel injector conectors, etc.)

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, I'll pick up some contact cleaner when I buy the compression tester, and check the FPR.

Jim, are you suggesting I pull the solenoid rack again and go through the harness piece-by-piece? (That's a 10h job there). Would that be testing for continuity, or looking for B+ when Ig: On? (on a side note, many of the solenoid connectors only had 0.3v, and others had 12v when I checked the harness the first time - what's up with that?)

Anyway, thanks for the tips. At lunch I'm headed to Germany for 12 days so I probably won't be able to do much till then.

Dave

quicksilver_rx7

Make sure all four plugs are getting spark. Check your fuse block under the hood. I was taking apart a friends car that had some previous work done by a well-known shop close to Charlotte, NC. They destroyed the alternator plug and had basically just crimped some radio-shack connectors on and plugged them in. I took the adjustment bolt loose, the alternator fell, the two wires touched, and blew a fuse under the hood.

zullo

TPS? I just adjusted mine, and when screwing with the adjustment my car would behave as you describe. Just a guess since it sounds like you had a lot of activity in that area; could have gotten bumped. That and if you cleaned your tb while you had it off, you could have thrown tps or idle adjustment screws off.

But if you pulled injectors and replaced solenoids, there are a lot of other things it could be... good luck tracking it down!

andre sinclair

iTrader: (36)

make sure that your gas filter inline the vacuum line that`s going to the MAP SENSOR is in the right direction of the flow....IF NOT CAR WILL IDLE ROUGH AND DIE.

GOOD LUCK.

JDK

iTrader: (8)

Dave, Your soleniods should be good if you checked them when you did your hose job, just make sure their all connected. If it's just shutting down after start up or after giving it some throttle I think it would be fuel related. Start with your FPR and the fuel injector's.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Solenoids were all tested and still connected, all fuses under the hood are ok. I dunno about relays though. Fuel lines were labeled, so it's unlikely I switched them, but I'll check again.

Checked the FPR hose - looks good. I notice I smell faint fuel fumes when my face is over the openings to the LIM - I wonder if that indicates I had a lack of spark. I will check the ignition coils resistance, and check plug wires.

Is there a quick way to check the injectors? When I had them cleaned, a local shop did them on their ultrasonic machine but didn't have the rig to flow test them (side feeds). I doubt that would be the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions. I gotta pack and catch a plane now - I'll resume this (mess) in two weeks.

Dave

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Change sparkplugs.

wstrohm

dgeesaman,

"I pulled the UIM this morning and aside from a slightly pinched hose leading to the ACV, nothing notable. "

I had exactly the same symptoms after my vacuum hose replacement, and found exactly the same hose pinched under that low spot of the UIM. I rerouted the hose and the engine now runs like new. I think if the hose is pinched, the vacuum can't get to the ACV, and no secondary pump air flows. The part of that air that should be injected at the exhaust ports is missing. The ECU is calibrated to take the O2 in that air into account when reading the O2 sensor, and if it isn't there, the A/F ratio becomes screwed up.

---- Bill

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Even if the plugs are spotless and brand new? They were dry - I could wipe off the little bit of soot on them.

wstrohm, thanks for the tip - hopefully the problem is not that it ran lean - but just a temporary problem.

I bought a compression tester Sat. morning, but had no time to verify it. I will check it again when I return from Germany.

DaveW

Running lean with no load will not hurt anything - no possibility of detonation. There's probably something wet, or that pinched hose is the problem.

alberto_mg

sounds like the same situation that gcthree was in. he had a thread a while back. he's still trying to sort it out. his last progress is that he just got his injectors cleaned and retested.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Well I tested the compression - looks good. I pulled the UIM and verified all the connections I could find - no issues.

I swapped ECUs, thinking that maybe the electrical short I did blew some circuitry - no change. Fires up, runs smoothly for about 5s then settles into the loping 'performance cams' sound. I assume that's the sound of one rotor not firing right. If I feed it a little gas it keeps going ok, but after a little while it

Zkeller suggested the OMP connector was forgotten - that's down near the turbo coolant lines, right? (I'm foggy on that one). I'll pull the airbox this afternoon if I have energy left and check it.

Checking for spark - I've never done this test before - I just insert a screwdriver, hold it about 3/8" from a suspension bolt (ground), and have someone crank the engine. Any tips to avoid shocking myself?

My injectors were cleaned by a place that couldn't flow test the injectors. How likely is it that they were damaged by/during/after the cleaning? (They have 62k on them). What's the best way to assess if they're working, short of swapping them with another set?

Dave

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

You obviously have some spark, else it wouldnt fire up at all. I think you should crank it up and give it some throttle for about a minute...hold it up near 2 or 3k. Give the plugs a chance to warm up, they might be on the verge of fouling.

kuroi FD

If your injectors sit out for a while a read that they can get messed up. If nothing else is wrong get them cleaned.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Got reading comprehension?

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

That's sort of what I did, but maybe for 15-30s, at 2k for that reason. It seemed to start laboring more as I held it, and when I let off the throttle it really wanted to die. I didn't want to really flood it and foul the plugs, so I stopped after 30s.

Back when the injectors were cleaned I kept them in zip-locs, and when I got them home I washed them with WD-40 and shook off all the excess. If I get that deep in the engine again I'll surely take the time to mail them to a shop with side-feed setup and have them recleaned and tested. Maybe in handling or something they got leaky or stuck.

Dave

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Today I found a pair of crossed hoses that would have resulted in the double throttle not getting vacuum, and a vacuum leak from the front of the UIM to the y-pipe.

Could the vac leak or DTC have been causing all this trouble? I have to decide whether to reassemble and test or to keep going until I can test / swap the primary injectors.

Dave

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

It could have caused the car to idle oddly, but shouldnt have caused it to die. The DT setup doesnt matter to how it starts up and idles at all. I think you have another problem.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

OK, I had some time and I put it to use tonight.

After doing the compression test, I came out the next day and my battery was about drained. OK, brought it in, and trickle charged it. Today, I ran the fuel pressure test (it failed), and I then started testing the FP resistor and relays. When I was testing the B+ going to the relays, I noticed only 3v with the ignition on. Hmm. Went right to the battery - 3v. Funny, it was 11.6 when I started today. That's when I figured my battery was losing voltage when the ignition was turned on. No wonder the engine would die and get worse and worse.

Now I'm thinking that the mistake I made shorting the solenoid connector to the engine block ground really toasted something. And every time I connect my battery and turn the ignition on, it drains the battery. I haven't noticed any sight/sound of warm or shorted wires. When the ignition is off, I see it settle down to 12mA of drain. Is this normal? (I haven't tested it with the ignition off.) When the battery is disconnected, it regains voltage.

So I'm back to thinking two things: either the harness is shorted somewhere, or the ECU has an internal short. I'll try with the swap ECU again tomorrow after the battery regains voltage.

So to recap:
1) is 12mA a normal drain with the ignition off?
2) Any tips on finding a harness short circuit that is draining the battery with ignition on?

Dave

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

One more point:

One of the 15A fuses in the main fuse box (by the main relay) has continuity but doesn't have a bright copper look to it anymore - it's kind of a brown. Should it be replaced?

Dave

RX-7-8593

From what you are describing sounds like the map sensor. Check the map line make sure its not pluged (pull it off the map sensor and blow threw it into the intake manifold) and make sure its going to the correct nipple on the UIM.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

It's not the map. I checked that about 3 weeks ago. Right now I'm sure I have an electrical problem.

Dave