dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

The answer to the aerodynamic question is in that linked thread:

Code:

So the FD wins. If you put the same wheels/gearing/engine in each car, the FD will have a higher top speed. I dug up some other numbers on the 'net, so I won't promise their accuracy.

Drag force (which is the performance issue) increases in relation to the product of frontal area and coefficient of drag. So even though many new cars have a Cd of .3, the FD beats them because it's low, narrow, and cuts less air. Any modded FD with a wing will have a different Cd, and if the wing is wider/taller than the body of the car, it will also increase frontal area.

More really good reading: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...4/article.html

These numbers are crude, but you can take this Cd*Frontal Area, and calculate the horsepower needed to sustain a particular speed. Plot this horsepower along with a dyno (in 4th or 5th gear of course) and where they first intersect is where the drag-limited top speed is.

Dave

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I was thinking the same thing. lol

omochi

reading comprehension is beyond me


thx :p

adictd2b00st

why don't u people actually go race instead of speculating for what its worth i used to race my friends c5 z06 all the time, he had full exhaust and intake..... he would get about a 1 car jump because of gearing and then it would just stay that way until we shut down. this was in a 305whp s13 AND my fd on stock twins @12psi with boltons. ironically both of my cars trapped the same in the 1/4 @110mph

TpCpLaYa

iTrader: (10)

i thought the fd drag coefficient wss .31,just read that in my yamaguchi book

Kevin T. Wyum

.29 for the base model and .31 for the R1 IIRC. Another item worth mentioning is that the Z06 CoD is closer to .29 than .28 again IIRC.

As someone mentioned all of the big ricer body kits and wings likely make the CD much higher than the .29 or .31.

John Magnuson

I agree 100% about what you said with the FD being a more entertaining car to drive.

I've already been at one track day with a C6 Z06. He was on street tires (it will probably be a while until they figure out how to run race tires on the new Z06 because of NIGHTMARES they have with the new tire pressure warning system... that's another story) and I was on R compounds so he couldn't pass me because I was outcornering and outbraking him. But holy mother of god was he ever reeling me in on the straights. That thing is FAST. And I pull pretty even with a C5 Z06. The Ferarri F430 that was at the track also pulled on me about the same as the C6 Z06. But I passed the Ferarri in the twisties... hehehe (ok.. he was on street tires too so it's not a fair comparison)

As far as my previous statement about the areo advantage of the FD I guess I was wrong. The coefficient of drag of the Z06 is better but I didn't factor in the difference in frontal area.

Happy motoring and a new year to all!

-John

Pafat: The new coleman rotors work just fine! Already have seven track days on them. Holding up well.

YoshiFD3S

iTrader: (19)

Interesting how my brother's mildy-modded SR-powered S13 hatchback with just a T28 turbo upgrade, FMIC, exhaust, and only 13psi beat a C5 Z06 from a stop.

Bad driver I guess.

My brother's 240 and my T2 were dead even till he had it pushing 15psi for a week or so just to test it, then he pulled a car or two on me by the end of 3rd gear, and he always had much more low-end torque.

I feel comfortable in saying it FEELS like my FD puts out better low-end power than my T2 did, full boost at 4k (non-seq), and the real power-band IMO hitting at 5k+, the FD feels like a whole 'nother animal.

I know the new C6 Z06's are nuts, but I feel confident that a ~300hp FD would pull on a C5 Z06 by 3rd gear at the latest.

Anyone have any race stories or should I check the Kills section?

John Magnuson

My FD probably has around 300 rwhp and weighs 2750lbs. I do not pull on a Z06. We're about dead even at any speed.

I know this from MANY encounters at the track (up to about 125mph or so) and one fun run on a deserted freeway (up to 140mph)

Scrapiron7

Comparing a modded FD to a stock Z06 isn't really a fair fight IMO. If you put the same amount of money/mods into the Z06 as the FD, the Z06 will be quite a bit quicker. And at the end of the day, the Z06 will have the reliability it needs to drive itself home

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

When I did some searches for the z-06 Cd, it seems that the projected number would be .29 (a slight increase over the .28), but the final result was .34.

Yep, it does not take much to slap an extra .05 Cd onto the car. Just a set of canards or rear spoiler is enough.

Dave

flunkysama

iTrader: (4)

When you talk Areodynamics there is more than just drag numbers. There is downforce. But the factory publishes no numbers and no third party tests are done so we only have stories and guesses to go on.

payne

You guys are a little off my question.

I actually have a LS1 in my FD so our powerbands are very close.

On my new motor, I should be right at 400rwhp and my buddy will have 440rwhp in his forged C5 z06. With him at 3150 and me at 2800lbs, we should be very very close in power to weight.

The question was does a FD have an aerodynamic advantage that would make a noticeable difference?

BTW, this will be real world tested once I get my new motor in my car

Snook

iTrader: (12)

I agree there. How is it fair to say yes I burn stock ZO6s all day but I have 3k in mods lol? All any vette owner needs to so is spend 500 on a nitrous kit. C5s can run 150 shot no problem which would put a stock 02+ ZO6 at 500+rwhp and probably 600rwtq good luck with that...stock zo6s have been known to run 11s on drag radials. What would a stock fd run with drag radials low 13s? The FD is a racecar as much as anything but the powerplant in the C5s has been around for a while and it's honestly hard to beat once they start modding....many people limit their hp on purpose to keep it reliable...I don't know of anyone that has a problem and overshoots their hp goals with the RX-7 so they detune it lol.

Any way back to the question like mentioned in one post the regular C5 coupe is more aerodynamic than the ZO6

A ls1 fd and zo6 with 40rwhp more is going to be a real real tight race

Kevin T. Wyum

Isn't a ZO6 a C5 with many thousands in factory mods? Keep in mind we're talking about a 13 year old car compared to the latest greatest factory racecar and you're saying it's not fair to have a few street mods?

Mid to upper 12's depending on the launch. They can run 13.3 in show room stock condition.


Oh then an FD base has a better CD than a Z06. I just assumed the best CD listed for C5's was the Z06. My bad.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

OK, if it's a stock body FD vs. a C5 Z06, you'll have about a 9% advantage in aerodynamic drag. If it weren't for the 10% horsepower that you're giving him, you'd be ahead. It's too close to say which will win on paper, because it's unlikely that either engine will be at the HP peak exactly as it nears drag limit.

As for acceleration, it will probably be very close also.

Dave

FLA94FD

You wont get fast enough for it to be a big deal in the 1/4. Tracking would make the biggest difference and the vette with a longer wheel base would have the advantage on the start.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Man you're a badass!
The question wasn't is it fair that the FD is so old. It was comparing the cars and stock vs modified isn't a fair comparison because you've altered how the car was made from the factory and it's not the same car any longer.

Please show me a time slip of a completely stock FD with drag radials running 12s LOL. With a 1.7 60 time I'd bet a fd would run 13.2s lowest. What are you going to cut 1.5 60 times on a stock fd? The zo6 comes with ~140rwhp more than the fd and has a wide powerband having 300+rwtq at 1800 rpms.

Yes the ZO6 is not as aerodynamic no big deal each of the corvette models has its own advantage. Seen a couple videos of supercharged FRCs or ZO6s hit near 200mph on highway pulls so it doesn't seem to be a huge factor...

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

You guys are forgetting frontal area of each car. The drag force from the air is calculated from the frontal area*Cd*Velocity^2 and a couple other factors that aren't much different car to car.

Basically remember Cd*frontal area. The Z06 appears to be a bigger car, so even with the same Cd the Z06 would be at a disadvantage wind drag wise, if it has downforce then it'll likely be even worse.

That said the Z06 is a badass and a stock FD won't run 12s with drag radials at STP (standard temperature and pressure). Maybe at sea level when it is 5 degrees outside.

adictd2b00st

because our cars are over 10 yrs old now and don't cost $70k? lol

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Both cars are similar in drag coefficient. The biggest advantage with the Vette is it's wider track and overall it's lower to the ground than the 7(total height). Wide and low is what you want for high speed stability. Ever notice how all the exotics are built? Wide and low. A low drag coefficiant just makes it easier to go fast however, it alone doesn't make the vehicle stable which is something else. Example: You take a missle (which has a drag coefficient of probably nothing) and put some wheels on it with a narrow track and it wont be as stable as if you spread those same wheels wider. The Vetts in stock form are rock solid past 160mph because they have more down force (which is totaly differant than drag coefficient) while the Fd's front end tends to get a little light up front. I topped my Fd out once when I first got it and I didn't feel that secure. I was like "Ohhhh Shiiiittttt"!

t-von

iTrader: (8)

No see my above post.

Kevin T. Wyum

Yes it will. If it won't then you need a better driver with more practice. I ran an uncorrected 13.3 on stock expedias at 35psi at 1300ft above sea level in summer.

PhoenixDownVII

This has got to be the worst site of Bench Racers and "what if my car was running one of two turbo's and the mustang had only 5 of 6 cyllanders working" type of rediculous scenario's.

Best way to find out if your car will beat your friends: Race. Does it matter? No. Take it to the track or just be quiet.

:P Sorry I'm a crankpot tonight.