verc

on board.mr2faq.com, someone wrote a really, really nice sticky about "is the MR2 a good first car", and it's not just about first cars, but something we should all keep in mind. Dunno how many of you have read it, I'll paraphrase it:

"Toyota may or may not have seen the import tuner boom among youth, and when it released the MkII MR2 YOU (late teens, early twenties) were not the target demographic. The car was targeted towards 30-40 year olds with a large discretionary income, loads of driving experience, and a need for a weekend driver." OK that was pretty bad paraphrasing.... but yeah I just thought that that's something we should all keep in mind, that because of steep depreciation, a lot of us who weren't necessarily meant to got a hold of FD's are(I'm not saying that's a bad thing of course). So you can kind of say that we are exploiting a "loophole" in that we are getting a middle-age-crisis-semi-exotic-performance-mobile while still very young, with comparitively little discretionary income(I know a whole crapload of us are starving college students!).

Just some food for thought. Food. Yum. Thanksgiving.....turkey....grandma's house....ahhhh.mmmmm OK i'll shut up now

13brv3

Interesting thought, but I doubt Mazda was interested in who would buy the car when it was 10 years old. Their interest is in who will buy it when new.

When the FD came out, I was 30 years old, and I was lusting after them heavily. Unfortunately, I found a $40+K sticker on the window of the first few that I saw. That was quite a departure from the $12k that I paid for my new 85. Sadly, I didn't seem to be part of the sales target for the FD

Cheers,

Foz'sRX-7

I was 42 when the FD came out. I, too, lusted after it. Ended up buying a new MX-3. 4 years later I found my 93 VR RX-7 and bought it on the spot. Now I am lusting after the RX-8. I want it for my daily driver (right now it is a 91 Miata) so I can drive the RX-7 on the weekends.

The price tag is really not a consideration.

It's the car!

13brv3

I think you'll fit the RX-8 marketing plan nicely

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

The FD was originally targetted for 50-year old men as i recall... guys whos kids were grown, and had some disposable income.

THIS is why it didn't sell... NOT because it was too expensive or didn't have rear seats, but because from a marketing standpoint, it didn't address the lifestyle and tastes of those who could pay for it new.

Why can Chevy sell a 50k sportscar where Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan couldn't? Because The C5 has the proper power amenities older adults want, room inside for larger adults to be comfortable, and (huge) room for golf clubs, along with its performance.

Why is Acura still selling NSXs? Because its an Acura not a Honda, and Americans are stupid like that. They won't pay 85k (or even 40k) for a hondas, Toyota, Nissan, or Mazda, but they WILL pay 85k if you rebadge 'em Lexus or Acura. AFAIK, Acuras are Hondas in Europe and Japan. If the Supra had been a lexus, and you slapped some nicer leather inside, they'd still be selling em for more money... If Mazda had a "luxury brand", it could have sold the RX for 50k. Notice the new 350Z and Infiniti G35 are the basically same car, appointed differently?

Mazda also didn't sell diverse enough versions of the FD. A N/A version, and a convertable would have helped fatten the demographic of potential buyers, and helped suppliment the few folks who really wanted an R1... the tourer and base were still too extreme.

Just a markeying/advertising guys 2 cents

c00lduke

I feel that if i've worked hard enough to afford the car i want, then i should be able to get it. Never did i once think, will some tool in the marketing and sale depot though this should be for old guy wishing they were 30 again. I thought, well i've been working the past 3 years to afford a nice car, so thats why i bought it.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

You would be fairly unique this way though. Most folks see the type/brand of car they buy as a statement of where and who they are in life.

A good friend of mine who is now a young Executive had a terrible time w/ his wife owning and modding his Supra... and she ultimately made him sell two of them and an RX!!

Since, hes bought a 40k Audi S4 and modded it big time... shes cool w/ that because it projects the right image for her.

She won't let him buy a Z06, but she will go for a new CLK AMG... Why? Because its more "executive" in her mind, and most folks care alot about what others think...

DK

iTrader: (5)

You guys are funny. If you paid attention to the rest of the world you'd realize the target market was 25-35 year old Japanese businessmen.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Not in THIS country it wasn't. Sold just fine over there, but it wasn't created as a homemarket-only car... or even homemarket-first.

Basically it was like if Chevy tried to sell the Z06 only. Plus a "touring" Z06 w/ leather and nice stereo, and a "base" Z06 with no oild cooler.... its just too extreme for most folks who want their C5 with leather, power everything, and an automatic.

Or if Honda had tried to sell the NSX as an 85k honda... they talk alot about the F1 technology in it.. and hondas name was on the F1 engine's valve covers, but when it came time to sell the car, they went upscale.

ttb

can't stand people like this....

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Yeah!.. Me either actually. I figure theres probably at LEAST as many by you in San Fran as there are here in No. VA. I resist the temptation to drive around with a sign on my RX that says "Could afford a newer car if i WANTED to" :-)

DK

iTrader: (5)

The American market was an afterthought for the car's designers ... if it was even a thought at all. If you don't believe me, then look at how late the American release was of the car, the lack of a cupholder (which is almost a sin in the US), lack of tilt steering column, lack of space for people taller than 6' (and someone is going to say "I'm 6'5" 290 lbs and I fit just fine" ... someone always does). The list goes on. There's not an American provision in that car anywhere other than a mild bumper reinforcement, a mph/mile speedo, and a LHD configuration. Japanese corporations are, by nature, "greedy" with their products and usually only think within the islands. And don't go off on "Honda this" and "Honda that" as your counterexample because Honda exists because of the American market so they definitely cater to it. Look closely at Japanese electronic products ... Sony stuff, Matsushita (Panasonic), Mistubishi/Hitachi and Japanese cell phones. They have a ton of stuff that they don't bring here, even though those companies have major US operations.

SoCalLove

I think its cool to see none of the older guys aren't doing the "I'm sick of seeing 16yr olds drive my car" whine. While I agree an FD may not be good for a first car. The way I see it sometimes, if there parents buy'em expensive fancy cars, fine. I guess they worked hard, they wanna spoil their kids, fine. But lets not whine, over the fact that they have one. Theres sore winners and loosers, don't be a sore looser.

Don't forget that a lot of memembers here who own a FD were around 18 or so when they got it. So buy doing the 16yr old drives my car whine, you're aiming at them as well. And those members have gone on to become some pretty well respected guys/gals here.

And I've said this so many times, during this day and age, cars like the RX-7 are affordable and their very repsected in the import scene. And that scene is aimed toward a younger auidence, so get used to seeing the FD's in the highschool parking lots.

rynberg

Obviously the viewpoint of an advertising guy. The FD is so good because NONE of the engineering decisions were governed by anybody remotely related to the marketing department. There was certainly no "50 year old man" target in mind.

[/i]
Why can Chevy sell a 50k sportscar where Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan couldn't? Because The C5 has the proper power amenities older adults want, room inside for larger adults to be comfortable, and (huge) room for golf clubs, along with its performance. [/QUOTE]

No. The C5 sells because it is an american icon, something the Supra, 300 ZX, and RX-7 aren't. It still sold pretty well when it wasn't comfortable or spacious inside (C4).

[/i]
Why is Acura still selling NSXs? Because its an Acura not a Honda, and Americans are stupid like that. They won't pay 85k (or even 40k) for a hondas, Toyota, Nissan, or Mazda, but they WILL pay 85k if you rebadge 'em Lexus or Acura. [/QUOTE]

FYI, Acura sold less than 400 NSXs last year. In fact, I think the number was actually less than 300. They are losing money on every NSX they sell here. Do they care? No, because it is their image car and they make billions selling Civics and Accords.

[/i]
Mazda also didn't sell diverse enough versions of the FD. A N/A version, and a convertable would have helped fatten the demographic of potential buyers, and helped suppliment the few folks who really wanted an R1... the tourer and base were still too extreme.[/QUOTE]

The sales for FC RX-7s were already plummeting near the end of the model life. I don't think having different versions would have helped that much.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Your point about the C5 being an american icon is true... but there was a time when corvette sales were suffering in favor of import sports cars... being an icon doesn't make it impervious to bad marketing... look at the T-bird (out of production for years, now brought back as an upper-middle class "look at me" car). Mazda had alot of brand value and racing heritage built in the RX7. The 2nd gen sales probably tapered off at the end because... well, it was the end. They'd been making that car for 6-7 years. My point about the FD's lack of model variety i think is still valid.

IF mazda didn't take the american market into consideration when designing the car, then that was pretty short-sighted. Even european cars are virtually identical to their american counterparts, whereas if you got a 1980s european mercedes grey-market imported, there was a good chance it had no A/C and cloth seats.I Can you imagine that now?

I know Acura doesn't sell too many NSXs, but i don't think 400 85k "hondas" is too many less than the 35k Mazda FDs they sold here back in 95. So my point about the nameplate makes sense. How many 85k mazdas do you think they could sell even now? Zilch.

ttb

i for one am glad they didn't make a N/A version or a version with cupholders, etc. the FD is such a great car because it's probably the closest thing to a race, track car you can buy. i would hate to have a corvette knowing that 80% of them are automatics driven by men on viagra :p

ttb

oh. btw, in october they sold 27 NSXs. And the new NSXs are so freakin ugly with those headlights.

rynberg

ptrhahn: I will agree to disagree regarding the marketing and sales of the RX-7....

However, I completely agree with you regarding the pricing of the "fake makes" -- Acura, Lexus, etc. No one would pay 85k for a Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc. There is a lot of talk about how VW intends to actually sell it's Phaeton.

Although, I think most of the reason why there are the "fake makes" is simple -- the dealer situation. If you can afford to spend 60k on a car, do you really want to be buying a car next to joe schmoe buying a civic dx? Or even more importantly, do you want to be helped by the same sales guy who just sold a civic dx? Or service department? Compare the waiting room at an Acura/Lexus dealer to the waiting room at a Honda/Toyota dealer. Just a small difference...

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Exactly. Perception of value and status is almost important as, well, actual value.

Also, don't get me wrong about that marketing thing... it sure wasn't the sole reason for the FDs lack of success... horrendous reliability and materials quallity, not to mention a sluggish economy sure didn't help!

Also, I too am sort of glad they didn't make any "compromised" FDs... i sure wouldn't have bought one, and i'm very glad i have such a rare, semi-exotic car that is so close to a "pure" racecar. I bet i see as many C5s in a day as i see FDs in a Month.

Sure would have been nice if it had JUST successful enough to keep being imported so that we could have bought an american-spec 2002 Spirit R though :-)

Flybye

Only in this country its all about status.
Germany is FULL of base BMWs. I mean BASE. Base as in CLOTH interior and hub cups. In america, its all about status.

I use to sell used cars, and people would get mad when they see an Acura and I'd tell them "Yeah, that's a nice Honda" and I'd show them the little Honda badges. They got mad quik

I have the FD press kit, and here is their target group:
(Straight out of the Press kit)
Positioning: The RX-7 signifies the return of the "pure" sports car.

Marketing Goals: Elevate the overall Mazda brand image in terms of innovative design and performance.

Demographics:
---------------------------Target Buyer------------Current RX-7
--------------------------For 1993 RX-7---------------Buyer
% Male:---------------------80%--------------------48%
Median Age:----------------44-----------------------35
Median Household
Income:------------------$95,000-----------------$59.000
% College Grad+:---------75%---------------------65%
Executive/Business:------74%---------------------74%
% Married:----------------55%---------------------39%

Oh, April 20th, 1992 was the official release date for the 93 FDs in america

ttb

flybye, r u saying only 48% of FD owners are male in the US? are you sure you're not talking about miatas :p

Flybye

Mazda's goal all along with design and performance. what they failed to realize is that 90% of people on this rock don't give a **** about performance. All they want is something long enough where you can loose your 10 kids in the back seat and be able to run over small vehicles at the same time

Mazda's intentions were PERFECT. They wanted to target the high end car enthusiast. This country and their beloved "We never go offorading" vehicles ruined it. Mazda never really had their own SUV until now, which is probably what killed them. Toyota always had several SUVs to leach from the public as well as their rebadged SUV in the Lexus line. Toyota still had enough flow to keep the Supra here till 98. If Mazda would have given in to the SUV craze, they might actually still have the FD here. Ironic, isn't it? The very thing we hate could have actually helped the FD to remain on this rock.

As far as the NSX is concerned...so as long as ricers remain, Honda will stay alive

Flybye

Remember, this press kit for the dealers came out BEFORE the official release of the FD. Those current RX-7 owners are FC owners.

verc

I actually was shocked to see the variety of BMW's in europe! Aparently, like how the BMW 3 series and 5 series are luxury cars here in America, in Europe they fulfill the same role that civics and accords do, as compact and mid-sized cars, with crappy base models which are definately not fast, something which BMWs have been associated with in AMerica.

Aparently in Germany Mercedes is the real deal luxury, so I've heard.

Air-Rex

Hey, SoCalLove,Im just glad the guy's in their teens and twenties arent saying "I saw some 42 year old fart in a FD today".