joelanger

Ok guys need some help diagnosing this starting/running problem:

my turbos are throwing oil out and need replacing, they are on order! other than that everything is in working order to my knowledge, and car is completely stock

so car was working fine and drove it 200 yards up the road and it just died and wouldn't start. it would start if I hold the gas pedal down slightly, but it sounded really rough, then if i let me foot of the gas, it idles barely at around 50-100 revs (pressume this means its running on one rotor. video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTIM6...ature=youtu.be

so I've check spark - all good and brand new plugs
compression tested - 7.5s on front and 7.4s all even

so its only fuel... had a well known rotary tech from UK round to look and he popped the fuel lines and said there's not enough pressure, and he said the plugs where dry... there was voltage getting to the pump so he suggested I change the fuel filter.

so I replaced the filter, borrowed a pressure tester from work (now i didn't do this like in the manual i just plugged in onto the end of the fuel line) and I got 55 PSI going into the FPR, I then got some funny readings so I have to do this again, but it does prove the pump is OK

thats as far as I've got and pretty stumped, the things I'm going to do next are:

Fuel pump re-wire
test the FPR properly
whip the UIM off
check coil resistance
check injector resistance
rewire the injector and coil pack wiring to rule this out
prob send the injectors off to get tested,
borrow some known good injectors to try

and while I'm doing that I will prob start on changing the turbos

so I was looking if anyone could shine any light on whats going on and whether I'm on the right lines fro diagnosing this. any feedback is greatly appreciated

SA3R

I dunno, I dont think that rewiring the fuel pump along with rewiring the coilpacks and injectors is a very productive idea. Unless the stock wiring has been mucked with, or looks old and completely knackered, I would leave it alone.

Its not often you drive down the road in any car, and it shuts off, and then requires an injector, coilpack and fuel pump rewire just like that.

Besides, you said spark checked out fine, so I doubt the coil wiring needs any attention.

You mention compression numbers as "7.4, 7.5" are you talking in bar? You'll get a better response in PSI, although I understand you're in the UK.

Tell us a bit more about the car- the ECU, the mods, etc. Normally flooding doesnt occur during in-gear driving on the road, with load. Its more cold start-shut off in the garage that causes 90% of it. So it doesnt sound a lot like a usual flooding scenario.

What gear was it in/what speed/rpm/how warmed up was it, etc?

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

Rewiring hte fuel pump is always a great idea LoL ,

check your fuel pump relays

also check if your fuel pump is working its not uncommon for them to go out . take it out and test it its very easy , and while you're doing that rewire it .

make sure you use a 30+ amp fuse . in-case you decide to upgrade your fuel pump it will come in handy .

if after all this nothing you may have to check the injectors .

ALSO , 7.5 par is around 108 psi . so it seems healthy .

joelanger

Re-wiring the fuel and ignition is a reliability thing while I'm messing around in that area. It also rules that out for fault finding. No it doesn't need it but the wiring might be bad how can you know? - its 20 years old single strand thin core cable, it doesn't last for ever I will be using a larger core cable multi strand

And just because the spark is visually good doesn't mean the coil packs are in spec

Thank you TEM120 for the conversion, you could have easily have converted it 1bar = 14.5 PSI

And if you can read the OP I said a completely stock car - and its not flooding.

@ TEM120 I checked the fuel pump wiring had voltage and it held 10.5v constant when I frigged the diagnosis port, which I assume means stock relays are working

I'll pull them pump and test that as well - if it needs replacing then I will upgrade

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

10.5 is low.. it should be 12. and More since the alternator should be charging the battery I think mine measured 14V when I have the car on after the rewire

Also make sure you check the fuel pump ground its right on the fuel pump access panel

SA3R

You would probably do better learning to use the 'search' function instead of coming here and asking for help, and then deciding to ignore the majority of the help given.

Most of the things you're asking about, have already been covered numerous times in the forum. I see you have 23 posts.

Irregardless, TEM120 is a top guy and will be able to steer you right, as he has done for me on many occasions here

joelanger

yes I know its low, I haven't done the re-wire yet that was stock wiring with the car off (because it wont start!! ) I wanted to use all that wiring as the trigger wire for the new relay and it held so that to me means that its not a fuel pump electrical issue

I havn't checked the grounds yet I'll add that to my list

cheers for the pointers

joelanger

searching for running/starting issues bring up the usual common faults like flooding, I am not a mechanic so I was just asking if anyone could advise me on the things I wanted to test. your post was not constructive at all, no its not flooded, yes I'm doing a re-wire for reliability and yes you didn't read the second paragraph about how the car was stock.

Just because I have 23 post, doesn't mean jack, I don't use this forum often I use FDUK, I have also owned my FD for nearly four years so I know the **** about flooding, so next time please keep your nonconstructive posts to yourself and then the snide reply when I point out the flaws in your post

so I'm gonna check out those things mentioned and get back to this thread, If anyone else has any constructive views on my issue they are greatly welcomed!

Ceylon

iTrader: (3)

10.5v to the pump does sound very low to me, I'd do your fuel pump rewire & see how you get on.

Failing that, I've got a spare set of working primaries you can borrow/have to test

joelanger

that's first job, I may well take you up on that offer as well let you know how i get on

MinotaurRacing

Hey Joe, don't ruin the stereotypical image everyone over in the US has of us Brits!! They all think we are super nice like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins...if you get arsy with them it will shatter their illusions!

Pressure isn't always an indication of flow, you can have one without the other.

Also as I understand it, the fuel pumps are on a two phase action, so at low rpm they are only drawing a partial voltage. So you need to get the car moving and then test the fuel pump at a higher load.

Why not just fit a Bosch into the fuel tank and hard wire it to the battery? Have you relocated that to the boot yet? Check the fuel lines are clear and not blocked in any way.

Ceylon

iTrader: (3)

The other way to check the voltage is to temp remove the fuel pump resistor and connect the two wires on its plug (Its under the master cylinder).

wstrohm

Might this possibly help?

joelanger

Bloody hell Jon, I nearly choked on my Tea and Biscuits when I read that, all us Brits are not nice or posh!!

I never thought of fuel flow, I could test that on the pump and search for the values.

I believe the pump does do that due to the resistor on the control circuit, but the re-wire will solve that, might give it a bit of a system overhaul to ditch that resistor, so it doesn't interfere with my relay coil.

I haven't relocated the battery, and have no immediate plans to do, I have some stolen cable from work and a relay so the re-wire is first on my list of things to do. and if it does need replacing I will get and up-rated eg Bosch.

That would be very helpful I'll give that a go, thanks

joelanger

on the other hand Jon why should I listen to your advice you have less post counts than me!! you clearly know nothing about FDs yours must be flooded mate

joelanger

OK finally got round to checking fault codes...

got what seemed to be 3 consecutive long flashes (might have been short? but I think they where long ones) but they were the same then a long light and the same three flashes.

now according to the list I have:

30 Solenoid Valve, split air bypass - open or short circuited
03 No crankshaft position sensor 'G' signal

so I think its the solenoid valve one, what does this do and do you think that this would be causing the problem? gonna look through service manual now an see which it is and what it does.

wstrohm

Of those two codes, the "G" signal is absolutely needed for the engine to run at all. The "G" and "Ne" signals from the crankshaft position sensor send ignition timing signals to the PCME. If the PCME is missing either, it will not send firing signals to the coil igniter.

However, the PCME stores fault codes forever, even if the fault itself has been fixed, unless all codes are cleared by killing the +12 volts to the PCME. So try disconnecting one terminal of the battery and pressing on the brake pedal for 10 seconds or so. That will run the supply voltage at the PCME down to zero volts. Then reconnect the battery and attempt to start the engine. Any code as serious as a missing "G" signal will be detected and stored even if the engine will not start. At least then if you read the codes you will know what the current faults are.

Be sure you are interpreting the lengths of the light pulses correctly. For instance, you mentioned: If you saw a 1.6 second flash followed by three 0.4 second flashes, that could be a Code 13, a MAP sensor defect.

joelanger

Ahh OK so if the crank sensor is down then I shouldn't get spark? coz I'm pretty sure I do get a spark

I have had the battery out for ages so it would have cleared everything

I may have interpreted the signals wrong, I'll make a video of it and post tomorrow (it's late this side of the pond). I thought the long light was the 4 sec break between fault codes.

so I'll play it like this then: get a new MAP sensor, then if that doesn't work rewire the crank position.

thanks a lot bud finally getting somewhere!!!

Evil_Sephiroth

iTrader: (1)

I have same identical problem on my 2001 FD3S

ATM i don't know if I have solved, cause i'm waiting various parts before start reassembly what i dismount.

My car sounds exactly like yours, except that if I am able to pass the 1400rpm "line" i can drive car with all the power, but if I release the gas car stall and it's very difficult to start

I removed all injectors and I have 1 primary pintle cap splitted and down in the fuel rail (not attached to injectors) and all grommets (primary+ secondary) very ruined....

If when I have problem i remove EGI fuse and do 5-7 second of cranking car start without problem, than you can have a flooding problem related to leaking injectors.


With all upper part of engine out i changed all vacuum lines, and i'm waiting to test if injectors cleaning+ new o-ring and grommets solved my problem


BTW i don't have that creepy whistle in my car O.o

joelanger

yeah let us know how you get on, the screeching sound will be just one of those things, nothing to worry about I don't think.

gonna check connections on the crank sensor and double check the fault codes today

joelanger

Bad news... Looked at the connectors on the crank sensor and they where fine so I double checked the fault codes, with everything connected to my knowledge there was no codes, to check that it wasn't me being gay I pulled the MAP sensor out and low and behold the light flashed!!

So its not crank sensor or map sensor, I'm just a bellend that can't read lights

Tom (Ceylon) lent me some stock primaries so im gonna change them and try it again, if it doesn't work then im dropping it off at pips for him to do. Because I've had enough now.

To change the primaries I've got to remove loads of gubbings under the UIM haven't I? Because last I looked I couldn't even see the injectors

Evil_Sephiroth

iTrader: (1)

Throttle Body, UIM and solenoid rat nest, plus air pump (10 sec work XD)

joelanger

well that's it getting bare stripped and turbos replaced then I think. send injectors off for flow testing and re-furb

if it doesn't work then I'm sending it to pips (well known UK rotary shop)