Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

Ok I have a 94 Rx7 it's automatic...the engine is done...I want to be a good weekend car I don't know if It's easier to get more HP by doing a 20 b swap or just adding aftermarket parts to the stock 13b engine any sugesstions...I'm converting it stick by the way so I'm getting all the ecu harness and assembly lines but don't know if a building an engine or buying a 20b long block thank you

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Doing a 20b conversion is INCREDIBLY costly and difficult. Hell, just doing the auto-manual conversion is a decent job.

Do the swap, next step is getting the car running right. Does it need brakes? Boost issues? New tires? Suspension? Paint job? Focus on what the car NEEDS.

Dale

cr-rex

iTrader: (114)

its wild how many people think 20b swaps are like swapping honda motors.

stick with the 13b and listen to dale. no fd NEEDS a 20b (depending who ask). there a million things that your car could use i'm sure. post some pictures and we will point things out

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

Thanks im getting a "new" (low miles) engine with warranty and doing the tranny swap..and will be getting rims then getting a cold air intake..any suggestions on the intake i saw the hks mega flow but ive been reading that the filter gets sucked in if not switched constantly and one of my cousins said that he read that adding an intake is bad for the car but not what ive been reading...anyhow im going to put the power fc after the cold air intake im a noob so i take the car to specilist i really wish there is a school for this...and ill be going to next seven stock hopefully..

JAlfano

iTrader: (3)

Just thought I would put my .02 on the matter, as I like yourself am new to the world of Rx7's and rotarys in general.

In my time on the forums and hours of digging for info, and the more senior members correct me if im wrong, but here are some things I would address to piggy back on the previous posters.

It seems like you're already undertaking the auto -> manual swap.

Once its done, make sure you have all the reliability mods which may include but not limited to:
Aftermarket DP (the precat just holds in a ton of heat)
Aluminum AST (the stock plastic guys like to crack)
Tires
Boost Gauge (make sure the turbos are boosting correctly and you're pulling enough vacuum.
Brakes (brake pads, fluid ect. the front calipers may need rebuilding)
Suspension (Are your struts or coilovers in good shape, leaking? ect. Also how are the bushing and pillow ball joints.)

Depending on who you ask they may also say things like
Water temp gauge
Cat back
PFC or other ECU.

These are all things I would look at. Consider these cars are ~20years old and things do wear out. Address the above to have a happy little rx7 and worry about the power after and extra looks after.

But to address your questions about a 20b swap and the intake.
As previously mentioned 20b's are a huge financial investment, getting a swap done, and done right will cost a lot of money.
As for the intake if you're on the stock twins, with the exception of intakes like Autoexe carbon or Knightsports, you are probably better off w/ the stock box. If you are looking for an upgrade and have done all of the above I would maybe look into a larger SMIC or a new radiator

Again my advise may not be perfect or I may have missed something but these are things I can say w/ confidence are a step in the right direction.

matty

Brakes are such an overlooked mod. I have hawk hps. The 929 master. And still I think the brakestake way too much effort to stop the car. Of course when I run through a couple gears I am probably going too fast. But in any event I feel like my brakes stink compared to my 335i

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

It seems like you're already undertaking the auto -> manual swap.

Once its done, make sure you have all the reliability mods which may include but not limited to:
Aftermarket DP (the precat just holds in a ton of heat)
Aluminum AST (the stock plastic guys like to crack)
Tires
Boost Gauge (make sure the turbos are boosting correctly and you're pulling enough vacuum.
Brakes (brake pads, fluid ect. the front calipers may need rebuilding)
Suspension (Are your struts or coilovers in good shape, leaking? ect. Also how are the bushing and pillow ball joints.)

Depending on who you ask they may also say things like
Water temp gauge
Cat back
PFC or other ECU.


As for the intake if you're on the stock twins, with the exception of intakes like Autoexe carbon or Knightsports, you are probably better off w/ the stock box. If you are looking for an upgrade and have done all of the above I would maybe look into a larger SMIC or a new radiator

Again my advise may not be perfect or I may have missed something but these are things I can say w/ confidence are a step in the right direction.

The only mod i have is a good exhaust with a megan DP and a greddy exhaust tip..the shop i took it in South CA said adding an intake will require the Power FC to be installed which i have but undecided to be put on because i believe you have to tune it...i had it on once but it wasnt tuned and it seemed as if it was lagging to switch gears..but idk how it would be when its stick now...im hoping to get the car in two weeks and upload pics..and i might have an aluminum AST from the first shop i took it to..pics coming soon

EUROX

iTrader: (15)

Putting on the Power FC can't hurt your car, it can only help it. If you have the base mod map, you can run intake, exhaust, and downpipe with no problem at all, provided you don't turn up the boost or add a mid pipe. Once you exceed this, you do need a tune.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The 929 matter cylinder increases the pedal force required to stop the car and is a downgrade IMHO. The stock brakes with good pads like the HPS are great with the stock matter cylinder.

929 master cylinder can be used when you have a larger portion area at the calipers than stock.

Jeff

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

i need brakes I just got an engine from Japan with low miles and I got the tranny swap done I added a cold air intake and a down pipe and I'm getting hooked up with a paint job I'll post pics later next week

Moe Greene

iTrader: (2)

I would suggest upgrading the cooling system after downpipe.

Downpipe->Koyo radiator->cold air intake->dual oil coolers-> Water injection

Not only will you get a nice bump in power with the downpipes and CAI but with the other mods you should end up having a really reliable 13b-rew as long as you stay on top of maintenance.

If you are on a budget don't spend your money on upgrading suspension and other cosmetic mods, cooling is the most important matter with an FD.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

If it was me, I'd be pulling that engine apart for inspection before going through the hassle of installing it. I seem to recall hearing... less than pleasant... stories about "low mileage" engines that are imported.

But then again, I've been burned by what used to be "big name" shops... So I don't trust strangers on their word alone

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

my suspension is wearing and so are my brakes there are a necessity but my cousin does paint jobs he said get him the paint and he'll do it just publicize his name because he's moving into my city to open his own shop out here
but thanks to the rotary feedback
my plans: I'll do the dual oil coolers and radiator and imma put the intercooler after I'm ready to tune or once I get a single turbo and tune it all together I just don't want to add too much without a tune with the apexi power fc I have
so far I have full exhaust straight pipe with down pipe cold air intake and a low mileage motor and a new tranny with 650miles and aluminum AST
oh I have three gauges I have to install that I just got air,boost,and I forget the last one
I drive it once a week I consider it my project and I love it imma take pics just to show the progress

Moe Greene

iTrader: (2)

Have you done a proper compression test on the engine? Correct me if I'm wrong guys but shouldn't a proper compression test be more than enough to let you know condition of engine? (Not taking into account blown seals)

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you mention boost control? Are you able to limit your current levels to 13psi max? "Full exhaust straight pipe" to me means that you have removed the stock DP, and replaced the main cat with a free-flowing midpipe. If that's the case then you've removed (needed) restrictions from the exhaust that help control/limit your boost levels.

The stock fuel system (fuel pump and injectors) can only really support 13psi safely, and that's really only if you are tuned for that.

Without restriction your stock wastegate is likely to become overwhelmed leading to overboost, especially now that weather is getting colder.... I'd add the stock main cat (or restrictor plates) back in as a precaution until you're ready to properly upgrade your system...

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=fendamonky;12130292]I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you mention boost control? Are you able to limit your current levels to 13psi max? "Full exhaust straight pipe" to me means that you have removed the stock DP, and replaced the main cat with a free-flowing midpipe.

Ok so I have the mid pipe installed

ok after reading I will
upgrade my wastegate and do a compression test

im installing realibity issues like my headlights only show a short distance so I'm installing HIDs I got last night and put my lip back on I'll take photos right now to show and I have the power fc but I don't have it installed because I'm not sure if I can put it on without a tune

i don't know how to upload videos so I'll post them on snapchat I'll send the link I'll try YouTube under my brothers account too

Cloaked Dagger

Is your factory ECU tuned for the mods you already have? The answer is no unless you've had it re-flashed. You said the engine was blown when you got it, what exactly was wrong with it? Was it an apex seal? Probably was. Contrary to popular belief those things don't break for no reason. They break from detonation. So why did it detonate the first time? The block itself isn't going to cause that so by replacing the block you haven't really fixed the root cause of the problem, whatever caused it to detonate is still the way it was before. So if you've done nothing to address why it blew up the first engine then it very well may do it again on the "new" one, especially now that the weather is getting colder, ask me how I know.

From the sounds of it you are approaching, or have already surpassed, the point of modification beyond what the stock fuel system can handle, lean conditions cause detonation and detonation blows engines. It sounds like you keep doing upgrades without considering any of the 20+ year old factory parts and whether they can keep up with these upgrades. Do you have a power number in mind for when you are finished? Do you have a budget for the car?

Have you changed the fuel filter? If not do this ASAP
Have you upgraded the fuel pump? Do you know if the factory pump is keeping up with your mods?
Have you upgraded the fuel injectors? Do you know if the factory injectors is keeping up with your mods?
Do you have a boost gauge? If not get one. How much boost is the car actually running?

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

Ok so out ion Santa Ana a shop fast Freddie's or RRR Motorsport said my old engine was no good water was inside the engind blown seal and something else so he found an engine from Japan and installed it with a tranny swap as well so he did it with the egg and no o2 sensor because the engines are slightly different so that's the cars engine he said the engine had 15xxx miles

And I was hoping 450hp with a years saving of 20k but everything is one thing at a time

Have you changed the fuel filter? No don't think so


Have you upgraded the fuel injectors? No
Do you have a boost gauge? Yes but I need to install will do next I only get one day off and it's hard I barely drive her

How much boost is the car actually running? Stock

and i I have videos on snap I just took check me out Adrianfromclass

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

Ok here's some videos

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

You don't need 20k to make 450hp in a FD and you for sure don't need a 20b.

You won't be making 400+ on a twin turbo setup unless you go to the BNR's and have a ridiculously overly sick setup. If 450 is your power goal and you have money like you mention above there is no reason to be nickeling around with a fuel filter change.

Find a single turbo kit from a reputable vendor on here (Turblown, IRPerformance, Addicted Performance, etc) and then buy a fuel system and ECU and either A) a flex fuel sensor or B) a methanol injection setup. Turbo kit will come with the downpipe, source a midpipe from an online vendor, and then you'll be set to make 450.

Now how long that will last on an OEM motor regardless of miles is another story. That being said, its a 22-23 year old OEM motor. My suggestion (coming from what I did) was build your single turbo setup on an old low mileage oem motor and run the ***** off it. Buy a $600-$700 journal bearing rebuildable turbo and don't give a crap about tossing a seal into it, eventually.

Then enjoy. Run it wide open and when she ultimately lets go have it rebuilt and ported by a serious builder and re-use all your stuff you already have with the difference being a bunch more power from the port job AND the higher boost you run.

Don't get caught up on horsepower numbers. The FD is a light car and a single turbo 400rwhp will scare the **** out of you if you haven't been in one before.

Skeese

Cloaked Dagger

Change out the fuel filter with a new one then. This is a maintenance item that is often overlooked and can cause fuel pressure issues once they clog up. These cars run the same fuel filters as a miata buy flow twice as much fuel so they should be changed relatively often.

To run that much power you will need a fuel pump upgrade and larger fuel injectors as well, but one thing at a time.

If you have removed restrictions from the exhaust by installing aftermarket exhaust with bigger pipes and no cats then it's very possible that you are running more than stock boost without actually intentionally increasing the boost. That is why I ask.

Also the factory MAP sensor only reads 1 bar above atmospheric pressure, or 14.7 PSI, so any boost above 14.7 PSI and the sensor cannot see it. Most people upgrade to a 3 bar map sensor when they do decide to run more boost or even just to avoid problems if they inadvertently hit an over-boost condition.

Adrian Anguiano

iTrader: (2)

If you have removed restrictions from the exhaust by installing aftermarket exhaust with bigger pipes and no cats then it's very possible that you are running more than stock boost without actually intentionally increasing the boost. That is why I ask.

Also the factory MAP sensor only reads 1 bar above atmospheric pressure, or 14.7 PSI, so any boost above 14.7 PSI and the sensor cannot see it. Most people upgrade to a 3 bar map sensor when they do decide to run more boost or even just to avoid problems if they inadvertently hit an over-boost condition.

So if I put the power fc can I run these without a tune for a while?

Cloaked Dagger

The power fc comes with a "base" tune that's roughly equivalent to lightly modified stock ECU tune. Basically it's about the same as the tune you would see on a re-flashed stock ECU for light mods. So if anything the car should run a little better than it does with the stock ECU. The base tune is not a replacement for a real tune when you start doing heavy modifications but it's also no worse than just leaving the stock ECU there. I would go ahead and install the power fc if I were in your shoes.

Also the power fc does remove a few safety features such as retarding timing when knock is detected, instead it only flashes the check engine light to let you know it's up to you to notice and let off the gas so you don't blow it up. The power fc also won't set any OBD trouble codes the way the factory ECU does, but the factory ECU's OBD system isn't very good and barely would have ever done so anyway, it does however allow you to see the data you are actually getting from the sensors in detail assuming you have a commander to go with it which is much more useful for troubleshooting if you actually know what you are. looking at.