3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002) 1993-2002 Discussion including performance modifications and Technical Support Sections.
Sponsored by:

Excessive amount of fuel in oil

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 16, 2013 | 09:34 PM
  #1  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Excessive amount of fuel in oil

1994, rebuilt motor. Did an oil change a day after I got it with 10w30. Two days later I checked the oil and it's over the full line and smells like gas also has quite a watery consistency. A week later (drove the car only twice since then) I check the oil it's over full and smells even more like gas.
What's the possible issue?
Reply
Old Jul 16, 2013 | 11:27 PM
  #2  
TitaniumCranium's Avatar
The Overattempter
Tenured Member 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
possibly a leaking injector.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 08:43 AM
  #3  
jetlude's Avatar
BadAss DoItYourselfer
Tenured Member: 15 Years
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 870
Likes: 4
From: Paradise
Even though you have not driven it, have you idled it for long period of time?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 01:48 PM
  #4  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by jetlude
Even though you have not driven it, have you idled it for long period of time?
No, I haven't. It's having some issues which I suspect to be the result of it needing a fuel filter change and spark plug wires so I prefer not to start it.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 04:07 PM
  #5  
Speed of light's Avatar
Form follows function
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 47
From: Now in Arizona
Is it getting up to operating temp--180 to 200 deg. F--for both water and oil?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 04:31 PM
  #6  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by Speed of light
Is it getting up to operating temp--180 to 200 deg. F--for both water and oil?
I have not installed the sensors for those gaugee yet. Waiting for the sandwich plate and radiator hose adapter to come in from prosport. May I ask why you ask though? I mean on the stock gauge it comes up to a little below half.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 04:42 PM
  #7  
arghx's Avatar
rotorhead
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 16,205
Likes: 461
From: cold
Full engine mod list?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2013 | 05:08 PM
  #8  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by arghx
Full engine mod list?
Rebuilt 9000 miles ago (but 3 years ago) by Rotary Doctor from previous owner.
The engine seems to be stock although in the receipt (barely readable due to age)
It is listed that Rotary Aviation apex seals were used. Also states that they used used rotor housings and replaced the front iron because it had a break in the oring.

Im not sure how much this pertains to this issue but in the receipt it says, "Had engine fire at one time. Tried to repair burned wiring harness and solenoids. May need new harness." Which is something I'll be looking for soon.

Looking over the receipt I'm slightly suspecting secondary injectors to be leaking or stuck because I'm also having issues with the rpm getting stuck at 4.5k
It only says that the primary injectors were replaced.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 05:53 AM
  #9  
arghx's Avatar
rotorhead
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 16,205
Likes: 461
From: cold
If its basically a stock engine with stock ECU, I'd clean all the injectors.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 06:04 AM
  #10  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by arghx
If its basically a stock engine with stock ECU, I'd clean all the injectors.
Alright. Well start with that. By that im guessing you mean having them shipped out to be cleaned right?
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 08:06 AM
  #11  
ArmitageGVR4's Avatar
ArmitageFD3S
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
iTrader: (13)
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,247
Likes: 26
From: Herndon, Virginia
Witchhunter Performance seems to be the hot ticket around here for injector cleaning, though I have no personal experience with them.

Let me save you some time and say skip the oil filter sandwich. They cause oil filter clearance issues with the TPS plug. I'm a big fan of the RE-Speed pedestal which replaces the OEM part completely and adds two 1/8 NPT ports right on the housing itself.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 09:33 AM
  #12  
Sgtblue's Avatar
Urban Combat Vet
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (16)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,160
Likes: 983
From: Mid-west
Had a friend with excessive fuel dilution that was attributed to worn side seals. I suppose irons out of spec would also do it. I didn't see that on the OP's list of things covered on the rebuild.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 02:17 PM
  #13  
mono4lamar's Avatar
In the burnout box...
Tenured Member 10 Years
iTrader: (32)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,453
Likes: 2
From: New York
Originally Posted by Sgtblue
Had a friend with excessive fuel dilution that was attributed to worn side seals. I suppose irons out of spec would also do it. I didn't see that on the OP's list of things covered on the rebuild.


It's wise to run a thicker oil (10w40 minimum and preferred 20w50) to combat natural fuel dilution. Rotaries typically get fuel in the oil but not to an excessive amount as you're describing. It's either a leaking injector after shutdown, a little extra extra rich while driving, or what I like to always jump on SIDE SEAL CLEARANCE.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 03:13 PM
  #14  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by mono4lamar



It's wise to run a thicker oil (10w40 minimum and preferred 20w50) to combat natural fuel dilution. Rotaries typically get fuel in the oil but not to an excessive amount as you're describing. It's either a leaking injector after shutdown, a little extra extra rich while driving, or what I like to always jump on SIDE SEAL CLEARANCE.
I can run 20w50? That thick of an oil would be okay? Hm. Side seals, wasn't listened but id assume it's natural to replace them during a rebuild; no?

Originally Posted by ArmitageGVR4
Witchhunter Performance seems to be the hot ticket around here for injector cleaning, though I have no personal experience with them.

Let me save you some time and say skip the oil filter sandwich. They cause oil filter clearance issues with the TPS plug. I'm a big fan of the RE-Speed pedestal which replaces the OEM part completely and adds two 1/8 NPT ports right on the housing itself.
Thanks! I'll look into that pedestal. Yeah I'll likely go with them, great prices.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 03:29 PM
  #15  
Carpenter's Avatar
T67, did I say 7?
Tenured Member 05 Years
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh
If the injectors need cleaning, these are the guys that we use.
Fuel Injector Service -- Pro Flow | Ultrasonic fuel injector cleaning and flow testing specialists
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 03:52 PM
  #16  
Sgtblue's Avatar
Urban Combat Vet
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (16)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,160
Likes: 983
From: Mid-west
Originally Posted by Slow2k
..... Side seals, wasn't listened but id assume it's natural to replace them during a rebuild; no?
I'm not a builder, but think most probably do. Some will re-use the old ones with new springs. There's also the variable of clearances to the corner seals. I think some rebuilds have pretty tight clearances, others not so much. The looser the clearances or the more worn the irons and housings, I'd expect more dilution is possible.
In my friends case, he tracked his car frequently and rebuilt frequently...re-using the hard seals if they were within spec. Sometimes I think he may have pushed it a little far....
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 03:54 PM
  #17  
GoodfellaFD3S's Avatar
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 25 Years
Liked
Loved
iTrader: (213)
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,804
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Yes, 20w50 is actually preferable to 10w30 in any kind of hot/summer weather.

Witchhunter or Marren are good choices for fuel injector cleaning.

Be careful with RE-Speed, you may want to go take a look in the 'bad businesses' section before placing an order.

Side seals actually are commonly not replaced on so-called 'budget' builds, and are a major cause of fuel dilution in the oil. I almost always use new side seals, clearanced on the tight side of factory spec, which is actually too generous IMO.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 04:27 PM
  #18  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Yes, 20w50 is actually preferable to 10w30 in any kind of hot/summer weather.

Witchhunter or Marren are good choices for fuel injector cleaning.

Be careful with RE-Speed, you may want to go take a look in the 'bad businesses' section before placing an order.

Side seals actually are commonly not replaced on so-called 'budget' builds, and are a major cause of fuel dilution in the oil. I almost always use new side seals, clearanced on the tight side of factory spec, which is actually too generous IMO.
Would 20w50 be okay even if I mostly drive the car at night where it sees cooler temperatures? I definitely want as thick an oil as possible. Damn, this is making my gauge installation more difficult than I hoped for.
Damn, if only there was a way I could know for sure. I guess I have to start with the injectors regardless.

Originally Posted by Sgtblue
I'm not a builder, but think most probably do. Some will re-use the old ones with new springs. There's also the variable of clearances to the corner seals. I think some rebuilds have pretty tight clearances, others not so much. The looser the clearances or the more worn the irons and housings, I'd expect more dilution is possible.
In my friends case, he tracked his car frequently and rebuilt frequently...re-using the hard seals if they were within spec. Sometimes I think he may have pushed it a little far....
That could be the case as I dont see any additional seals listed on the receipt. The housings were used units and only the front iron was replaced.

Originally Posted by Carpenter
I'll check out their website. Haven't looked yet but witch hunter is my current preference.

Does anyone know what an "Engine Subgasket Set" is? It's listed on the receipt but the part number is barely legible due to age of the receipt. I've tried looking up what I can read and have found nada. Although I'm guessing it would have nothing to do with seals.

Last edited by Slow2k; Jul 18, 2013 at 04:34 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 04:49 PM
  #19  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Okay so I just called Rotary Doctors, the company that rebuilt the engine; great guy by the way, provided so much help to me over the phone. He remembers the car specifically and has sent me another receipt. But he said in all their rebuilds they do replace ALL seals, they do however leave it up to the customer about the rotor housings and irons.
I mentioned to him to the car misfires during idle and runs extremely rich (by smell) and smokes out only while its cold. The smoke smells only of fuel though. He suggested I get a Apexi AFC for the time being to dial down the AFR a bit. I think I'll save up a bit extra and go for a PFC though.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 05:24 PM
  #20  
arghx's Avatar
rotorhead
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 16,205
Likes: 461
From: cold
If it's rich because your injectors need to be serviced, a $1000 computer isn't going to solve that.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 05:26 PM
  #21  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by arghx
If it's rich because your injectors need to be serviced, a $1000 computer isn't going to solve that.
Oh yeah, I definitely know that, what confuses me is that he said he had all the injectors sent to RC Engineering to be sonic cleaned, but it only lists primary, it's not too expensive so I'll just have them sent out to be cleaned again anyways.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 09:35 PM
  #22  
ZoomZoom's Avatar
SEMI-PRO
Tenured Member: 20 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,865
Likes: 36
From: New Jersey
You are making a lot of guesses, I would have it sorted by a rotary shop in your area. There are too many variables to be spending money on the wrong things.

Where are you located. That will give everyone an idea where to recommend you go.
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2013 | 09:42 PM
  #23  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by ZoomZoom
You are making a lot of guesses, I would have it sorted by a rotary shop in your area. There are too many variables to be spending money on the wrong things.

Where are you located. That will give everyone an idea where to recommend you go.
Im located in hawaii. Theres only one shop I trust here which built my s2000 and he has done several rx7s. He actually has 2 right now. Only problem is that he's booked for like 3 or 4 weeks.

There are not a lot of shops here seeing as there's no track.

Last edited by Slow2k; Jul 18, 2013 at 09:59 PM.
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2013 | 06:11 AM
  #24  
Slow2k's Avatar
Thread Starter
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
So I've removed the fuel rails to do the NS conversion, emissions delete and vacuum line replacement and there's no more fuel getting in my oil. Would that mean I had leaking injectors?
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
trickster
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
25
Jul 1, 2023 04:40 PM
Snoopy FD
Build Threads
25
Dec 8, 2015 01:45 PM
ChrisRX8PR
Single Turbo RX-7's
21
Oct 18, 2015 04:01 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 PM.