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Excessive amount of fuel in oil

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Old 07-16-13, 09:34 PM
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Excessive amount of fuel in oil

1994, rebuilt motor. Did an oil change a day after I got it with 10w30. Two days later I checked the oil and it's over the full line and smells like gas also has quite a watery consistency. A week later (drove the car only twice since then) I check the oil it's over full and smells even more like gas.
What's the possible issue?
Old 07-16-13, 11:27 PM
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possibly a leaking injector.
Old 07-17-13, 08:43 AM
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Even though you have not driven it, have you idled it for long period of time?
Old 07-17-13, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jetlude
Even though you have not driven it, have you idled it for long period of time?
No, I haven't. It's having some issues which I suspect to be the result of it needing a fuel filter change and spark plug wires so I prefer not to start it.
Old 07-17-13, 04:07 PM
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Is it getting up to operating temp--180 to 200 deg. F--for both water and oil?
Old 07-17-13, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Speed of light
Is it getting up to operating temp--180 to 200 deg. F--for both water and oil?
I have not installed the sensors for those gaugee yet. Waiting for the sandwich plate and radiator hose adapter to come in from prosport. May I ask why you ask though? I mean on the stock gauge it comes up to a little below half.
Old 07-17-13, 04:42 PM
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Full engine mod list?
Old 07-17-13, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx
Full engine mod list?
Rebuilt 9000 miles ago (but 3 years ago) by Rotary Doctor from previous owner.
The engine seems to be stock although in the receipt (barely readable due to age)
It is listed that Rotary Aviation apex seals were used. Also states that they used used rotor housings and replaced the front iron because it had a break in the oring.

Im not sure how much this pertains to this issue but in the receipt it says, "Had engine fire at one time. Tried to repair burned wiring harness and solenoids. May need new harness." Which is something I'll be looking for soon.

Looking over the receipt I'm slightly suspecting secondary injectors to be leaking or stuck because I'm also having issues with the rpm getting stuck at 4.5k
It only says that the primary injectors were replaced.
Old 07-18-13, 05:53 AM
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If its basically a stock engine with stock ECU, I'd clean all the injectors.
Old 07-18-13, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by arghx
If its basically a stock engine with stock ECU, I'd clean all the injectors.
Alright. Well start with that. By that im guessing you mean having them shipped out to be cleaned right?
Old 07-18-13, 08:06 AM
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Witchhunter Performance seems to be the hot ticket around here for injector cleaning, though I have no personal experience with them.

Let me save you some time and say skip the oil filter sandwich. They cause oil filter clearance issues with the TPS plug. I'm a big fan of the RE-Speed pedestal which replaces the OEM part completely and adds two 1/8 NPT ports right on the housing itself.
Old 07-18-13, 09:33 AM
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Had a friend with excessive fuel dilution that was attributed to worn side seals. I suppose irons out of spec would also do it. I didn't see that on the OP's list of things covered on the rebuild.
Old 07-18-13, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgtblue
Had a friend with excessive fuel dilution that was attributed to worn side seals. I suppose irons out of spec would also do it. I didn't see that on the OP's list of things covered on the rebuild.


It's wise to run a thicker oil (10w40 minimum and preferred 20w50) to combat natural fuel dilution. Rotaries typically get fuel in the oil but not to an excessive amount as you're describing. It's either a leaking injector after shutdown, a little extra extra rich while driving, or what I like to always jump on SIDE SEAL CLEARANCE.
Old 07-18-13, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mono4lamar



It's wise to run a thicker oil (10w40 minimum and preferred 20w50) to combat natural fuel dilution. Rotaries typically get fuel in the oil but not to an excessive amount as you're describing. It's either a leaking injector after shutdown, a little extra extra rich while driving, or what I like to always jump on SIDE SEAL CLEARANCE.
I can run 20w50? That thick of an oil would be okay? Hm. Side seals, wasn't listened but id assume it's natural to replace them during a rebuild; no?

Originally Posted by ArmitageGVR4
Witchhunter Performance seems to be the hot ticket around here for injector cleaning, though I have no personal experience with them.

Let me save you some time and say skip the oil filter sandwich. They cause oil filter clearance issues with the TPS plug. I'm a big fan of the RE-Speed pedestal which replaces the OEM part completely and adds two 1/8 NPT ports right on the housing itself.
Thanks! I'll look into that pedestal. Yeah I'll likely go with them, great prices.
Old 07-18-13, 03:29 PM
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If the injectors need cleaning, these are the guys that we use.
Fuel Injector Service -- Pro Flow | Ultrasonic fuel injector cleaning and flow testing specialists
Old 07-18-13, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Slow2k
..... Side seals, wasn't listened but id assume it's natural to replace them during a rebuild; no?
I'm not a builder, but think most probably do. Some will re-use the old ones with new springs. There's also the variable of clearances to the corner seals. I think some rebuilds have pretty tight clearances, others not so much. The looser the clearances or the more worn the irons and housings, I'd expect more dilution is possible.
In my friends case, he tracked his car frequently and rebuilt frequently...re-using the hard seals if they were within spec. Sometimes I think he may have pushed it a little far....
Old 07-18-13, 03:54 PM
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Yes, 20w50 is actually preferable to 10w30 in any kind of hot/summer weather.

Witchhunter or Marren are good choices for fuel injector cleaning.

Be careful with RE-Speed, you may want to go take a look in the 'bad businesses' section before placing an order.

Side seals actually are commonly not replaced on so-called 'budget' builds, and are a major cause of fuel dilution in the oil. I almost always use new side seals, clearanced on the tight side of factory spec, which is actually too generous IMO.
Old 07-18-13, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Yes, 20w50 is actually preferable to 10w30 in any kind of hot/summer weather.

Witchhunter or Marren are good choices for fuel injector cleaning.

Be careful with RE-Speed, you may want to go take a look in the 'bad businesses' section before placing an order.

Side seals actually are commonly not replaced on so-called 'budget' builds, and are a major cause of fuel dilution in the oil. I almost always use new side seals, clearanced on the tight side of factory spec, which is actually too generous IMO.
Would 20w50 be okay even if I mostly drive the car at night where it sees cooler temperatures? I definitely want as thick an oil as possible. Damn, this is making my gauge installation more difficult than I hoped for.
Damn, if only there was a way I could know for sure. I guess I have to start with the injectors regardless.

Originally Posted by Sgtblue
I'm not a builder, but think most probably do. Some will re-use the old ones with new springs. There's also the variable of clearances to the corner seals. I think some rebuilds have pretty tight clearances, others not so much. The looser the clearances or the more worn the irons and housings, I'd expect more dilution is possible.
In my friends case, he tracked his car frequently and rebuilt frequently...re-using the hard seals if they were within spec. Sometimes I think he may have pushed it a little far....
That could be the case as I dont see any additional seals listed on the receipt. The housings were used units and only the front iron was replaced.

Originally Posted by Carpenter
I'll check out their website. Haven't looked yet but witch hunter is my current preference.

Does anyone know what an "Engine Subgasket Set" is? It's listed on the receipt but the part number is barely legible due to age of the receipt. I've tried looking up what I can read and have found nada. Although I'm guessing it would have nothing to do with seals.

Last edited by Slow2k; 07-18-13 at 04:34 PM.
Old 07-18-13, 04:49 PM
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Okay so I just called Rotary Doctors, the company that rebuilt the engine; great guy by the way, provided so much help to me over the phone. He remembers the car specifically and has sent me another receipt. But he said in all their rebuilds they do replace ALL seals, they do however leave it up to the customer about the rotor housings and irons.
I mentioned to him to the car misfires during idle and runs extremely rich (by smell) and smokes out only while its cold. The smoke smells only of fuel though. He suggested I get a Apexi AFC for the time being to dial down the AFR a bit. I think I'll save up a bit extra and go for a PFC though.
Old 07-18-13, 05:24 PM
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If it's rich because your injectors need to be serviced, a $1000 computer isn't going to solve that.
Old 07-18-13, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx
If it's rich because your injectors need to be serviced, a $1000 computer isn't going to solve that.
Oh yeah, I definitely know that, what confuses me is that he said he had all the injectors sent to RC Engineering to be sonic cleaned, but it only lists primary, it's not too expensive so I'll just have them sent out to be cleaned again anyways.
Old 07-18-13, 09:35 PM
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You are making a lot of guesses, I would have it sorted by a rotary shop in your area. There are too many variables to be spending money on the wrong things.

Where are you located. That will give everyone an idea where to recommend you go.
Old 07-18-13, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoom
You are making a lot of guesses, I would have it sorted by a rotary shop in your area. There are too many variables to be spending money on the wrong things.

Where are you located. That will give everyone an idea where to recommend you go.
Im located in hawaii. Theres only one shop I trust here which built my s2000 and he has done several rx7s. He actually has 2 right now. Only problem is that he's booked for like 3 or 4 weeks.

There are not a lot of shops here seeing as there's no track.

Last edited by Slow2k; 07-18-13 at 09:59 PM.
Old 08-28-13, 06:11 AM
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So I've removed the fuel rails to do the NS conversion, emissions delete and vacuum line replacement and there's no more fuel getting in my oil. Would that mean I had leaking injectors?
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