pyro_racer_0016

I was pulled my transmission tonight to change my clutch and while removing the old clutch noticed that the flywheel move forward and backward like the eshaft was sliding in and out of the block. I verified that it was the ecentric shaft moving by having my friend move the flywheel while i held the front pulley and the pulley moved as well. The amount of play is somewhere between a 1/16 to an 1/8 of an inch which is much more then the allowable by the FSM which is 0.0035. There is only about 10k miles on my mazda reman and 3k miles of that was breakin. I have 2 fc blocks one with 100k miles and one with 140k miles and both of them have no play whatsoever.

Has anyone had this issue before and if so what need to be replace would it be the rotor bearings or is it something else. Is this a sign of an upcoming engine failure????????

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well, the screeching noise came in my head when i heard "mazda reman", the builders for mazda usually aren't too impressive and do sloppy work even if they have tons of new parts to work with... on the upside, with the better part of a day you can replace and reshim the front of the motor without pulling it out or tearing the whole motor apart, you can even leave the oil pan on.. my only concern would be you will probably need to be ready to replace everything associated with the stack and the spacer can vary in size depending on your needs for end play, this is where owning a shop and having many size spacers comes in handy. at any rate i would have to assume the front thrust bearing has gotten chewed up somehow, the rear thrust bearing failing would cause nasty noises from the engine whenever you pressed on the clutch from the stress of pushing the e-shaft into the light steel thrust washer that bolts to the front stat gear.

aanyways, parts you would need on hand are:
torrington bearings (2)
thrust washer at the e-shaft side nearest the rotors
stat gear thrust washer (mounts to the stat gear in the sandwich)
e-shaft shim(this comes in numerous sizes, usually from experience V is the typical shim size)
front thrust washer (this one sits inside the front counter balancer)
timing cover gasket
timing cover o-ring(for oil galley from oil pump)
timing cover nylon o-ring support(this is an optional part and is not always needed in cases of the steel timing cover gasket and some earlier model paper timing cover gaskets)
front e-shaft oil seal
OMP oval o-ring
water pump housing to block gasket
silicone(permatex ultra black or hondabond from a local honda dealer)

sorry i don't have part numbers on hand.

good luck

pyro_racer_0016

no nasty noises when i push in the clutch just the front belts squealing when at idle and i know its the belts cause if i take off the accesory belt and leave just the water pump and alternator hooked up the squealing goes away.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Gorillare here on the forums drove a car for about 7-10k miles if I remember correctly with the bolts missing from the front Stationary Gear. You can search his thread, he could hear clunk everytime he let off the clutch. It eventually caused the engine to let go. It isnt a good thing and I imagine you will have some bearing failure eventually.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yes, i wouldn't even start the car again before pulling the timing cover and figuring out what is going on in there.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

This is one reason why I don't like installing mazda remans as-is. Seen way too many issues of improperly side seal clearancing, loose bolts, leaky oil pans, etc. I've heard horror stories of missing corner seals (no lie) but this is the first endplay issue I remember hearing about......

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

I don't even know what to say about someone forgetting to put a corner seal in. That's pretty scary IMO

The last motor I tore down had .060" endplay. Oh and before you ask, that's not a typo...

pyro_racer_0016

mine has at the very least a .0625 i will let you know when i get the measurement on it i am buying a dial indicator and a caliper this weekend i need them anyway for when i reassemble my 20b.

pyro_racer_0016

finally measured the shaft play. It is at .082" now that i have my flywheel locker i can start taking the front cover off and find out what size spacer i have.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

You might not have a spacer in there given that amount of endplay

Chadwick

iTrader: (12)

Ok, that made me laugh out loud


Dan

arghx

iTrader: (3)

when I crushed my rear thrust bearing during engine assembly (caught the mistake immediately) my endplay was about .030" . after replacing the bearing it was .00175"

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Engine builder's inside joke?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

important:

review build info re crushing the Torrington bearings before you put it back together.

endplay should be around 2 thou.

hc

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Yup, this converts to 0.005 mm. Spec is 0.004 to 0.007 and max allowable is 0.009. Ihor and I check this on every single engine, and you would be surprised at how many people don't perform this integral step.

David0ff

iTrader: (6)

because of situations likle this i chose to rebuild myself and skip the reman

pyro_racer_0016

i am gonna start rebuilding on my own as well that is to remans in a row that had issues first was a blown coolant seal at 250 miles. and now this on the replacement for that one.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Nothing wrong with doing it on your own if you have the competency and the knowledge. As a counterpoint to that though, I've seen numerous instances of 'do-it-yourself' motors that have failed due to build error. At the shop we tear down most remans for portwork anyway, so we always check *everything,* you definitely can't trust the reman factory based on what's been seen in the past.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I always tell people to make sure you have enough money and time to rebuild your motor twice when doing it yourself for the first time. As Rich mentioned, it's not difficult, but sometimes you don't know until you know. i.e. you think you are doing everything right until it doesn't work. Good luck which ever way you decide to go with your motor.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Good advice Kyle.

We (IRP) are a Vendor here on the forum and Ihor and I have a very good track record with ported builds. Don't take my word for it, search around a bit and you'll see some good feedback. PM me if interested in quotes

pyro_racer_0016

luckily my engine is still good and i just have to pull the front cover and reshim

badddrx7

iTrader: (7)

I would bet the spacer is missing with that kind of EP.


later

pyro_racer_0016

yeah but the engine still has to come out since i will be breaking the seal on the oil pan and just got all the oil leaks fixed. Since the transmission is already out this isn't such a big deal i just have to drain the oil and coolant and disconnect the wiring and fuel and it will pull right out.

pyro_racer_0016

went to break the front bolt on the e-shaft loose and turned it with one hand on the breaker bar. Its SUPPOSED to be torqued down to 200ft/lbs WTF. any way i torqued it properly and instead of the .082" endplay it now has .0075" endplay not as bad but still need pulled apart since its over tolerance and i have been driving it with that bolt not properly torqued. On a side note there was no locktite on the bolt threads like there is supposed to be and i that is why it was loose that and it prolly wasn't properly torqued in the assembly process. Luckily this issue has caused me to plug the thermal pelet and start tearing into the block myself.