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Dual In Tank Fuel Pumps: Post how you are setup

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Old 02-22-05, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jspecracer7
Well I wouldn't call it a myth. But inside the tank are metal "walls" that trap a certain amount of fuel inside of them so that you don't go lean under hard cornering. Problem is that if you have little fuel in my tank, then that little bit of fuel left inside the walls probably won't do anything.
I just added that because your initial post didn't say anything about low fuel level.

just giving you a hard time..
Old 02-22-05, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rotary Experiment Seven
Drill a hole in the fuel pump assembly cover and install a 90 degree bulkhead fuel fitting. Earls makes them, or you can use something less expensive from a hydorlcs store. Secure the 2nd pump along side the first with some hose clamps. You're going to have to play around with the positioning of the pumps to get them to fit right, especially the way the sock filters point. At this point you can chose to run a new fuel line for the 2nd pump, use the existing vent line as a 2nd feed, or t the two fuel pump outlets together and use just the stock feed line. The stock feed is pretty small, and I like to keep the vent to prevent fuel vapor smell, so I like to run a new line. The problem with this however, is that it is more work to add another hard line, and running a soft line the length of the car can be dangerous. In your case I would probably just T the two pumps together. Makes it alot simpler. Some people run a pump for each fuel rail, but that becomes a real pain and I don't see much benefit in it. The stock wiring is barely adequate for a single pump, so you need to upgrade it. The stock setup also runs the pump at 9 volts (if I recall correctly) and then steps it up to 12v via relay under load. The best way tp get power in my opinion is if you already have the battery relocated in the bins or trunk. Run a power wire to the pumps. I forgot what guage I used, but it was at least twice as thick as stock. You also need to incorporate a relay into this. Don't use the starter relays alot of people use. They click loudly as they cycle and are not designed for extended use. Gotham usually has the proper ones in stock. Other than that, make sure any hose you use is marked as fuel injection hose and for high pressure. The other cheep stuff will burst over time. Also, solder and heat shrink. everything. I don't trust the crimp connectors for critical applications like fuel.
Thanks Ihor...I am no electrical wizzard so excuse the stupid question...But what part does the relay play in this and why would it be bad to just hard wire the pumps to the battery with a fuse?? I guss they would always be on then
Old 02-22-05, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by apneablue
Thanks Ihor...I am no electrical wizzard so excuse the stupid question...But what part does the relay play in this and why would it be bad to just hard wire the pumps to the battery with a fuse?? I guss they would always be on then
This is what I understand from all this. What role does the relay play and where is it wired in?

Attached Thumbnails Dual In Tank Fuel Pumps: Post how you are setup-pump_setup1.gif  
Old 02-22-05, 11:20 AM
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The relay acts as a 'switch'. Essentially you run the stock wiring to the relay to activate them. Otherwise the pumps would just run and run and run, regardless of whether the ignition is turned on/off. The relay relies on a ignition switch power source meaning it's only hot or on when you turn the ignition key. That's where the stock fuel pump wires come in. They're an ignition switched source. Each relay has four terminals. I'd still run two relays and two sets of wires, one set to each pump.
Old 02-22-05, 11:44 AM
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Ok, so I guess the next question is, what relay should we use for this??

Also, are you suggesting to take the the source of the stock relay and wire them to the relay/s for the two pumps??

Also, why would you want to install 2 relay and not just have 1 relay control both pumps?


Thanks again.
Old 02-22-05, 12:18 PM
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Well they're relatively inexpensive and you'll have two sets of wires, one for each pump. In the end, it'd be more reliable to have two relays instead of splicing everything together. One might overtax a single relay as well. I purchased my relays from RadioShack along with the 25A inline fuse holder. For the relay's power source, I disconnected the stock fuel line wiring leading to the tank and used that. No need to go all the way up to the stock relay.
Old 02-22-05, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jspecracer7
Well I wouldn't call it a myth. But inside the tank are metal "walls" that trap a certain amount of fuel inside of them so that you don't go lean under hard cornering. Problem is that if you have little fuel in my tank, then that little bit of fuel left inside the walls probably won't do anything.
it was either pettit or peter ferrel (one of the 3 rotor guys) that was having this problem... since they burned fuel so fast this, fuel starvation was a situation they were running into frequently. i dont know how or if they solved it.... but it would suck to have to pull off the track to fill up once you reached 1/3 of a tank of fuel so you didnt blow your motor. i cant imagine that 2/3 of a tank would last them very long at all at those power levels!
Old 02-22-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jspecracer7
The stock fuel tank is already setup so that you don't have to worry about fuel starvation during hard cornering. That's why there's that metal thingy (for lack of a better word :LOL inside the tank.

The "baffle" inside the tank is what keeps fuel near the pump when hard cornering, braking and acceleration.
Old 02-22-05, 08:18 PM
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I have a 1995 RX7 that was built in December of 1995. Technically it's a 2006. There are a few differences between my car and other 1995 models (and before) such as the ABS system. Another is that I have very little issue with fuel starvation at anything other than an empty tank. I should take a picture of the inside of the tank and will if I have a chance...I have a white plastic "tub" or baffle system which keeps fuel around the pump. Anyone else have this in their car? I heard Mazdaspeed sells an add-in baffle and I'm wondering if that's what is already installed in 96+ 7's.
Old 02-22-05, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rx7tt95
I have a 1995 RX7 that was built in December of 1995. Technically it's a 2006. There are a few differences between my car and other 1995 models (and before) such as the ABS system. Another is that I have very little issue with fuel starvation at anything other than an empty tank. I should take a picture of the inside of the tank and will if I have a chance...I have a white plastic "tub" or baffle system which keeps fuel around the pump. Anyone else have this in their car? I heard Mazdaspeed sells an add-in baffle and I'm wondering if that's what is already installed in 96+ 7's.
WOW i had no idea.... id be VERY interested to learn more if anyone has any info...
Old 02-22-05, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rx7tt95
I have a 1995 RX7 that was built in December of 1995. Technically it's a 2006. There are a few differences between my car and other 1995 models (and before) such as the ABS system. Another is that I have very little issue with fuel starvation at anything other than an empty tank. I should take a picture of the inside of the tank and will if I have a chance...I have a white plastic "tub" or baffle system which keeps fuel around the pump. Anyone else have this in their car? I heard Mazdaspeed sells an add-in baffle and I'm wondering if that's what is already installed in 96+ 7's.

1996 or 2006?
Old 02-22-05, 10:33 PM
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Wishful thinking on my part I guess...1996.
Old 02-22-05, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rx7tt95
Well they're relatively inexpensive and you'll have two sets of wires, one for each pump. In the end, it'd be more reliable to have two relays instead of splicing everything together. One might overtax a single relay as well. I purchased my relays from RadioShack along with the 25A inline fuse holder. For the relay's power source, I disconnected the stock fuel line wiring leading to the tank and used that. No need to go all the way up to the stock relay.
one thing to consider running two sets of wires to the back, is that if one pump dies on you, the car will still run but when you boost if you have them in parallel, fuel goes to one rail only and you might pop. If you run one set of wires, the pumps die and the car doesn't run at all, saving you an engine. Just another way to look at it.
Old 02-22-05, 11:11 PM
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Both fuel pumps run to a Y so they feed just like the stock pump would and feed both rails sequentially. Wires aren't going to die unless they're overloaded, hence the two sets of thick gauge wire.
Old 02-22-05, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FCNAred
one thing to consider running two sets of wires to the back, is that if one pump dies on you, the car will still run but when you boost if you have them in parallel, fuel goes to one rail only and you might pop. If you run one set of wires, the pumps die and the car doesn't run at all, saving you an engine. Just another way to look at it.
i like thid approach better personally. just get one relay that can handle the load (dont know what would be the load from 2 say nipondenso pumps), but it seems safer like that
Old 02-23-05, 01:43 AM
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I plan to use the Y into the stock supply line, teeing both pumps into one. I will let the stock wiring and variable voltage solenoid operate one pump, for normal driving. And use an adjustable boost actuated switch into a relay to switch on the second at about 8psi when the extra fuel is needed. This should keep noise in general and excess fuel consumption when cruising to a minimum...IMO. We will see.
Old 02-24-05, 03:05 AM
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OK so now that we have established how to do the dual pump conversion (relatively simple)... lets talk about some other aspects related to doubling our flow!

what about the fuel filter?? is twice the flow a problem for the stock filter? is it even that great compared to the aftermarket replacements? (and is there any worse place in the world to put the fuel filter... took me 2 hours and tons of swearing to even replace the stock one... thanks mazda... )

also im wondering if the hardlines, return lines, soft rubber lines, charcoal cannister, or anything else will need to be upgraded if we are doubling the flow of fuel. thats alot of fuel that we are moving around (especially at idle... when its not being used and has to be returned). is there anything about the stock fuel tract that will be a problem??

last thing... we have a fuel pulsation dampener, and a fuel pressure regulator correct? can you guys recomend good aftermarket replacements that you have had good luck w/? i know the FPD is the one that people normally replace (and the stock ones catch fire), but what about the FPR?

thanks guys... this is an informative thread. lets keep it going. -heath
Old 02-24-05, 09:29 AM
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For the FPR, the stock unit is fine even for two Walbro pumps. I don't think it would have trouble supporting 450rwhp. It does 400rwhp just fine. I use an Aeromotive FPR, their new "compact" unit which only features one inlet/outlet as that's all I need. It's a whole lot smaller than the dual inlet unit.

As for the filter and related lines, they're fine to hold the pressure (that's regulated by the FPR and how much boost you're running) but the fuel filter should be changed every 30K minimum as it's essentially the Miata filter and can clog quickly. If you're running lots more fuel through the system, I'd recommend changing it sooner. I'm very surprised no one in the aftermarket industry has come up with a better solution (a kit) to move a larger fuel filter to an easier to service location. Might be down to lack of room.
Old 02-24-05, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rx7tt95
For the FPR, the stock unit is fine even for two Walbro pumps. I don't think it would have trouble supporting 450rwhp. It does 400rwhp just fine. I use an Aeromotive FPR, their new "compact" unit which only features one inlet/outlet as that's all I need. It's a whole lot smaller than the dual inlet unit.


As for the filter and related lines, they're fine to hold the pressure (that's regulated by the FPR and how much boost you're running) but the fuel filter should be changed every 30K minimum as it's essentially the Miata filter and can clog quickly. If you're running lots more fuel through the system, I'd recommend changing it sooner. I'm very surprised no one in the aftermarket industry has come up with a better solution (a kit) to move a larger fuel filter to an easier to service location. Might be down to lack of room.
Form what I understand, people are doing the relocating to the rear rebar just by the tank. I had Gotham relocate mine....Basically it's the filter strapped to the rebar with 2 large hose clamps. I think if you go through the trouble of changing the filter in the stock location you may as well relocate while you are at it.
Old 02-24-05, 10:21 AM
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Double post.....

Thought this new software you couldn't do that :scratch;
Old 02-24-05, 12:01 PM
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what pumps are those in the pics of people with 2?

pat
Old 02-24-05, 12:02 PM
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Those skinny silver ones are the walbro's.
Old 02-24-05, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by apneablue
Form what I understand, people are doing the relocating to the rear rebar just by the tank. I had Gotham relocate mine....Basically it's the filter strapped to the rebar with 2 large hose clamps. I think if you go through the trouble of changing the filter in the stock location you may as well relocate while you are at it.
if youve got a digicam lying around, id really love to see some pics of where exactly it is, and how its done. did they end up using an aftermarket fuel filter or the stock one?? thanks, heath
Old 02-24-05, 07:14 PM
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oh, also... is it the Fuel Pulsation Dampener, or the Fuel Pressure Regulator that everyone keeps on going on about is a MUST to replace as they will "catch your car on fire."

PS if one does go w/ an aftermarket FPR, what is the propper pressure to set it at? (sorry its off topic but i was just wondering.)
Old 02-24-05, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RotorMotor
oh, also... is it the Fuel Pulsation Dampener, or the Fuel Pressure Regulator that everyone keeps on going on about is a MUST to replace as they will "catch your car on fire."

PS if one does go w/ an aftermarket FPR, what is the propper pressure to set it at? (sorry its off topic but i was just wondering.)
The fuel pulsation dampner always leaks after time and is in need of attention. As for the fuel pressure, you can search that as I am unsure and it has been talked about before.


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