wutanec

I'm pretty sure i will be flamed for this. I have to drive my FD through the winter and i live in east michigan. It snowed last night and i tried to drive it on a fresh inch of snow on Dunlop SP8000s and almost hit a parked Taurus going 5 mph So I will be getting a set of winter tires next week. I plan on using 205/55/16 but will it be a good fit on stock rims? and on snow when my ABS kicks in it makes chi chi chi noise. is this normal? thanks.

rynberg

By the time you pay for good snow tires and mounting them, you could almost afford a cheap POS to drive when the weather's bad.

Anyway, I would go with 225/50-16 Blizzak WS-50 or Michelin X-ices.

wutanec

I thought the narrower the better. Is it not?

rynberg

True, in pure snow situations. In semi-dry to dry roads for a lot of other winter days, you will want more tread. Besides, most manufacturers list a maximum recommended rim width of 7.5" for a 205/55 16 tire, the stock wheels are 8" wide.

Kevin T. Wyum

I put the WS-50's on my GS430 and it made an amazing difference. It goes through snow almost as well as my all wheel drive A6 did, which is pretty darn well. I don't think an FD will ever be reasonable in snow no matter the tires though. Buy a POS as someone else mentioned for $500 to $1000.

prew

iTrader: (9)

I ordered a set of these for my s14 tonight:


They were ~$40 shipped at tirechain.com

Comet

yep, you should feel a vibration in the pedal too, that's totally normal.....


however, I prefer the non-hero/dumbass approach.....


buy an 87' soobie station wagon thing that can be built at the boneyard for like a six-pack, nipple tassles, and a bag of dog chow for the pups.

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

I used to drive my FD on a daily basis and bought the blizzacks. I was able to run around in 6inches of snow with no issues whatsoever. I didn't like doing it but when it was my only car I had no choice.

Anthony

theo481

iTrader: (10)

HAHAHAHA i did the same thing. only comming into my driveway, i hit the tree going about 3mph, abs didn't kick in becaue somewhee between the turbo timer and other stuff it disable it fir that trip... go figure

but the night b4 new snow and wanted to whip a s}{itty and missed a cement light post by >1 foot....... i alot **** my pants.

got home and my buddie following me slapped me across the face......i deserved it.

DaveW

I have had several sets of WS-50's. Although these are absolutely fabulous in snow or on ice, they are traction-challenged in dry or wet, due to the tread pattern, and a tread compound designed for ice and snow. They also tend to wear quickly in the dry. Therefore, the larger the tire, the better the tread will perform (more tread in road contact) in any conditions, and for wear.

Narrower is better only for aquaplaning resistance, especially if the tread compound is made for snow and ice.

DamonB

Narrower tires work better in snow as well because the increased pressure over the footprint drives the tire deeper and into firmer contact with the snow. Snow tires are optimized for snow just as z rated performance tires are optimized for warm, dry pavement.

Checkout how narrow the snow tires are on any winter rally car:

bajaman

lol....there needs to be a "snow" key, like a valet key that 'Vettes have that limits the engine output to like 100 hp for an FD to be remotely usable in snowy conditions.
I have an automatic FD, and if you use the 'hold' function in 'Drive', it will force the car to start out in 3rd gear, which is a very effective traction control as long as the car doesn't say, "Hmmmm.....this is weird.....I must give him more boost!"
I've driven my FD in snow before with moderate success, though I surely do NOT recommend it. And one time I got caught in a freak Kansas ice storm (went to work and it was 60 degrees, by noon it was 20 degrees and freezing rain, by 5:00 PM all roads were ******* ICE RINKS!) and THAT was a trip I don't want to repeat. The 10 mile trip home took over an hour, using country-gravel roads, and even then I was sideways and backwards more than forwards half the time!

If getting a second car is just completely out of the question and you HAVE to drive your FD, definitely get the best set of snow tires you can find. Follow this link:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp
for some good ones that fit the stock rims.

DaveW

[QUOTE=DamonB]Narrower tires work better in snow as well because the increased pressure over the footprint drives the tire deeper and into firmer contact with the snow. Snow tires are optimized for snow just as z rated performance tires are optimized for warm, dry pavement.

Checkout how narrow the snow tires are on any winter rally car:

QUOTE]


Those are almost certainly studded tires with a huge # of studs. In that case, narrower is better because the studs have to be driven into the ice or hard-packed snow.

On ice without studs, greater contact pressure (smaller tires) turns more ice to water and can make it more slippery. That's why the Blizzaks have a porous tread compound to allow the water somewhere to go. Without studs, more gripping edges (sipes) mean more traction in snow.

On dry pavement (which is what you drive most on, even in the winter) obviously a wider tire is better, especially with a very soft tread compound like that on the blizzaks.

Blizzaks are offered for high performance cars with different tread patterns to increase the amount of tread in contact with the road.

So, I stick with my assessment that wider is better.

DamonB

Studs or no studs the same reason applies: the footprint of the narrower tire has more pressure above it and so the tread is driven harder into the snow.

Studs are merely the "narrow tire" idea taken to extreme. The studs are so small and narrow that the weight of the car above them creates extreme pressure at the sharp tips of the studs, easily piercing them into ice or snow. Why are nails made with sharp ends rather than nice blunt ones? Because for a given force from the hammer a sharp nail will exert greater pressure on the wood and more easily pierce it.

True in a lab but cars can't exert enough pressure through their tires to melt ice becuase they don't weigh enough. Ever had the ice melt from under the tires of your parked car while everything else was frozen? Me neither.

Not in the snow.

The reason we use wide tires in warm weather is because rubber has both adhesive grip and mechanical grip properties. We want our contact patch large to take advantage of the adhesive properties of the rubber when it's warm and dry outside. In water or snow there is practically no adhesive contact of the rubber to the road. In those cases we want to increase contact patch pressure by making the contact patch smaller. This pushes the tires harder against the snow or water and increases the mechanical grip properties of the tire.

Maybe Tire Rack knows what they are doing :

"Priorities for Sizing Winter Tires Are Different
Does your sports car, coupe, or sedan use wide, low profile tires that are mounted on large diameter wheels? Or does your light truck use large flotation-sized tires? If you're going to drive through lots of snow this year you'll want your winter tires and wheels in sizes that help put the laws of physics on your side.

A wide, low profile or large tire has to "plow" a wide path through snow which causes more resistance. The narrower the tire, the easier you can get through snow."

They even go on to talk about "minus sizing": installing narrower tires than your vehicle was ever equipped with to take advantage of the increased pressure under the footprint.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Everything I've learned about snow tires reflects this principle. Unless you're talking about the pressures found under the blade of an ice skate, you can't melt what's under you, and even if you could it would happen so fast that it's like hydroplaning. (Hint: for all you ice skaters, skating is hydroplaning).

As for the design of snow tires, they must be both effective at avoiding hydroplaning (slush = rain), but also grab ice and packed snow. Like a set of Docker's shoes, the multiple, hard, sharp edges of tread block manage to grip into the ice better than a more compliant summer or all season tire. Studs are just an even more extreme version of this.

Dave

coblepots

My whole take on this issue is this. By looking at a simple phase diagram of water, as you increase pressure at constant temperature, The solid melts. Ice is not slippery, it is a solid just like a piece of steel. The only reason one slips on ice is the fact that as pressure increases, it melts. So, speaking only about ice, a widder tread is far better to prevent slippage as pressure is a function of area. However, un-packed snow is not a solid in the same regards as ice. The wider the tire, the more spaced out the pressure is because, again, pressure is a function of area. This works well for snow shoes but staying on top of the snow isn't a good thing for a car because grip comes from the tire making contact with the road. So, essentially everyone here is correct in one way or another. The problem is, there is no real best option. Technically a narrow studded tire will provide the most grip because it causes the ice to melt slightly at the stud's contact point, giving the stud 360 degrees of hold. The narrowness assures that the most weight is transfered to these studs. The whole problem is that studded tires are not practical on most all roads since they provide next to zero grip after the roads have been plowed due to this narrow contact area. Buying snow tires are much more complicated than regular tires. My advice is to go with the reconmentations on tire rack. They mention the more narrow tire for purposes of plowing into the snow. Basically just watch yourself when the roads are wet and not covered in much snow. A good tread that carries water away from the center along with studs is the best option if you want your baby, (and you) to survive the winter.

nopistons94

seriously I got a dodge neon 5 speed for 500 dollars

DaveW

I most snow conditions, except for slush, the tire does not actually contact the road. Even in initially unpacked snow, the snow compacts under the tire (unless the tire is spinning and melting the snow), even if the tread area is quite small. In packed snow (which, if you are driving on an actual snow-covered surface, is likely to be the case), this is even more true. In either case, you are relying on the biting tread edges (sipes) and the tread compound itself to provide traction, not contact with the road surface.


So, again, IMO, a reasonably wide tire with the proper compound and tread pattern is not a problem.

Interesting - lots of opinions here!

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/WinterP...3&autoModClar=

coolvette

put 200 lbs of weight in the hatch and you will be amazed how good it will track thru the snow.Its worked wonders in my 87 turboII,without snow tires too.

TurboTagTeam

I had to drive 40 miles in 2 inches of snow the other night. I had no choice. And I'm running BF Goodritch drag radials out back

Red Suns

Two words...SNOW TOUGE!

seanfd3s

It may have frozen up since you are driving in snow. DamonB is right being a avid WRC fan Ive watched them explane tire choices for all types of roads and weather and explaned why they used a narrorower tire in the way DamonB said.

Mazda99Nikon

I have a set of four Dunlop Graspic snow tires on my 91 FC and it is as good if not better than a front wheel drive SUV in the snow. I went through a 12 inch drift at low speed last winter. There were all sorts of vehicles in the ditch and these kept me on the road. The Gaspics are cheaper than the Blizzaks and they will last longer, for what it's worth. They are adequate in the dry. No racing around, though once the weather improves. The soft sidewalls aren't meant for drifting.

ehos

The problem isn't just the tires. You need a tire that is still maleable in extreme cold.

The bigger problem with the FD is the power. Waaaay too much power on snow/ice. It's the reason why the Auto FD's are so easy to drive and the 5spds' are actually dangerous.

You should really be short shifting and starting in 2nd/3rd to avoid tire spin.