Hello,

1995 PEP M/T -- original engine, dp, catback, gauges, controller.

Oil changed @ 69.5k miles. I had it sitting for about three weeks while I leisurely changed some vac hoses and intake gaskets and MBCs. I noticed a very small amount (like three quarter-sized spots) underneath the subframe, rear of the oil pan. A few drops were resting on the subframe itself as well. I wiped it, noticed some of the oilpan bolts were lose, tightened them. Some of the rubber washers were destroyed

Checked my oil, this was about 70200mi, so like 700 mi after full capacity---it was down to 1/4.

Was hoping this was due to the leak. I have not seen any drops since then. I added enough oil to get it to 1/2. Now 400 miles later, I check the level, and it is dead on L.


I did not get a warning buzzer so I think i caught it in time.

I am not blowing smoke, coolant looks green as ever, car runs well.

Could a small leak cause this much oil to be lost----even though it is no longer leaving traces in my garage? (i.e., maybe the drops fly off during driving and the leak is so slow that its not apparent when parking it overnight)

 

No, almost every fd leaks. Both of my motors have leaked. My current one leaks nastily. However, no where near 3 quarts in 400 miles. Maybe you not seeing the oil smoke because you have a a catalytic converter?

Pull intercooler pipes and check for oil.

 

While there is coating of oil in my IC pipes---this is my second FD, and doesnt look like any more than my last one, which didn't drink oil this bad.

I will show a picture this evening, ya'll can be the judge

 

I think you're probably losing the oil while your driving while things are hot, pressurized, and are being worked hard.

If possible clean up things as much as you can and then with the car up in the air, let it run and see if you can pinpoint where it is originating from.

 

^ That.

I used to have a weird leak that I can't find until I removed everything, turned out my turbo was blowing oil into the charge pipe. On top of that the LIM has a broken bolt so that spot is not 100% tight and the oil were being forced out from there and left a nice trail of oil leak down to the subframe from the intake port.

 

Does it smoke on high rpms? If so, it could be the oil control ring inserts. When mine went bad, I would have to add about a quart after every spirited run.

 

If your pan bolts were loose you're probably never going to get it to seal properly. I'd drop the pan, reseal it and close it up with a banzai oil pan brace. After thats done have someone rev the car up to 4500ish to get it well pressurized and check for leaks. If theres still a loss in oil its either your turbos or your engine .

-David Guy

 

Thanks for all the tips guys.


I haven't noticed any smoke at any RPM---just the typical startup condensation white smoke.

yep brace just got bumped way up on my upgrade list. thanks for the suggestion. If it is my engine, so be it---it runs so well and I'd rather rebuild while it is in goodshape than waiting until something catastrophic. and(used) turbos are 120$ on this forum!


Question, if anyone knows----what exactly determines the amount of oil sprayed by the oil injectors? I mean, what is it 'reading' to know how much/often to inject (duty cycle)?

I ask this, because if it has anything to do with the TPS that could be it. I did noticed that I was hitting 5.01v (3F) before WOT, maybe at about halfway. So if the injectors think i am WOT when I am only half throttle, they could be injecting a shitton of extra oil, no? with smoke being hidden by my stock cat...

thanks again!

 

It's been a while but 3F may be the narrow range portion of the TPS. Check 3G. I really don't think your oil injectors could flow enough to manifest itself the way you describe.

 

OK, few things here.

When you say it's down on the dipstick, it's down to the bottom 1/4 of the hash marks? The hash marked area is ONE QUART of oil. So, if you fill it to the top hash mark, then later you check it and it's at the halfway mark, you're down a half quart of oil. If you were, say, 3 quarts low, you wouldn't be registering on the dipstick at all.

Sealing FD oil pans is voodoo. When I built my motor, I had the engine upside-down on a stand, tapped all the bolt holes, cleaned thoroughly and degreased, used the Right Stuff grey squirt can RTV, used an oil pan brace, and torqued every fastener with a torque wrench. Guess what? Still leaks. But, it's a minor dripping leak and hardly registers.

Most likely you are burning oil if it's going that fast, and it's most likely from the turbos. If you have a main cat, that will hide a LOT of oil smoke issues, the cat just burns it up and you don't see smoke. If the oil control o-rings in the motor were bad, you'd have a HUGE smoke show of oil. FD's typically don't have bad oil control rings that I've seen.

Could also be the PCV valve, read up on the '95 style PCV setup or get a catch can. If boost is pressurizing the oil pan, you'll get oil getting into weird places and getting burned off.

Dale

 

700 miles.. you are lucky the engine didnt go boom ..

unless you have Oil metering pump deleted then you are using crank oil to lubricate the motor , and the harder you drive the more oil is used, couple that with normal leaks here and there . sounds about right ..

check it every week , and before driving it hard .

look up oil metering pump. so you understand where your oil is going.

 

put dye in the oil and you'll find where it's coming from real quick...

also, I'd agree with dale. The PCV system, if not working correctly, will pressurize the crankcase and cause oil to come out where it has the least path of resistance.

 

Okay guys...

After more inspection, I think my loss of oil is due more so from the leak than mechanical failures (turbos, motor).

I did a round trip San Diego<>LA (~250mi), checking oil before and after. It moved down the dipstick only a small amount. typical of spirited driving + a small leak.

Remember I mentioned the car was sitting for a while in december? I believe that was more so the cause of oil loss than the 700 mi I put on it since it was changed.

In the OP, when I mentioned it went from 1/2 to L, I am now blaming my hasty dipstick pulling---i don't think all the oil returned to the pan yet ( i was at a gas station..)

I mean, if I was really burning it, there should have been considerable loss during my round trip and there wasn't.


I've ordered a banzai brace--arriving today. and taking it to Lucky 7 this weekend for the messy job










Yes, that second post is incorrect. In my owner's manual it says F ---> L represents 1.8US Qt. So its not like I went through 3 quarts or anything.

good to know...have my fingers crossed! Leaving it to the professionals this time.


I have a '95, so my PCV is set up as such (one of the tubes from the oil neck is capped, as well as on the UIM).

I never thought that a stock cat would hide so much smoke, thats both good and bad.
Happen to know if its the same with high flow ? that was going to be my next upgrade, as midpipes in cali are just risky.

I've been checking--loss seems more 'usual'. the 700 miles I drove it still had oil in it, I'm saying since I changed the oil I only put 700 mi and it was at 1/2---but that also included a lot of garage-sitting, where I now suspect most of the oil was lost.

dye will be next, I am positive some is leaking from the oil pan---hopefully that is it.





Thanks for all of the help!

 

I have a question for you though . I guess 700 miles seems like a small ammount of miles . But dont you add oil or check after every couple fillups ? or did you remove the oil metering pump . I know during spirited driving my FD used to chug oil down

 

This is my second FD--I change oil <2000mi.

I still have the OMP.

On my previous more-modded '93, I'd usually end up around the 1/2 mark by the time the oil was due. This was without adding any oil. This car also had a coating of oil on the intake tubes, was a '93 (AFAIK stock pcv setup), and gave off a strong oil smell under boost lol (vented BOV). That car was dynoed at 300rwhp and I did not hold any of the ponies back.

From that experience, I did not expect to have to add oil very often. And I wasn't checking it often since I had changed it less than a thousand miles ago. What prompted me to check it at the ~700 mark was the leak I discovered. I have been checking regularly now, but it doesn't seem to be dropping like I would expect. Last I added some iswhen I noticed it at L (but like I said, i think this was a false reading).

 

I see , i usually had to add oil alot more often . maybe about every 500 miles I had to add a quart I dont know what other people add oil , But i had to always keep adding oil even before my oil change was due at 2500 .

after eliminating the OMP , i havent had to add oil once .. so far .. and i have an oil pan leak .

if you do drive the car hard I'd recommend keeping the oil level topped off .. spun bearing is no fun LOL

 

duplicate

 

very good to know. I am running 20/50 idemitsu (seems even more expensive with a leak!)--not sure if the thicker weight would make a difference?

or perhaps I am not pushing as hard as I could be, this '95 touring original suspension isn't too crisp, tires (feel like) the cheapest money could buy.

But yeah I am watching my levels regularly now!

 

checking your oil in different ways will give differing results.

shutting off the engine and immediately checking the dipstick will give a lower reading than if you let the car sit for 15 minutes or overnight and allow all the oil to move back to the pan. the difference is usually nearly 1/4 quart, or 1/4 of the hashed area of the disptick from one method to the other.

maybe you used the prior method during the initial oil change which gave the highest reading, subsequent hasty checks were already registering 1/4 lower. there's really no cause for alarm until the level is at the bottom of the hashed area, but consumption is usually either the engine or turbos, unfortunately. 1/2 quart per 500 miles is usually the limit for typical highway driving consumption, sprited driving can use a lot more than you can measure accurately as acceptable.

personally i wouldn't worry about it until the engine actually started producing visible smoke, or if you are concerned and have the money then a rebuild and turbo swap would likely cure it too.

 

Just an update..

Got the pan resealed and Banzai'd by Lucky 7 (los angeles), 350$

Drove it back down to SD, left some shoptowels underneath overnight and they are 100% dry.
Oil level is at the F. Looking good.

Thanks for the guidance!

 

I always put a giant card board under the car, so I'll know if something is leaking.