don't use seafoam
08-08-09, 03:48 PM
#27
As a matter of conjecture....why do make this assertion? Just curious. I mean, when no OEM or specialty engine house or leading edge companies endorse doing this.
You've rebuilt a lot of engines and I respect your opinion. Have you seen first hand proof of any benefit of regular 'steam cleaning'?
You've rebuilt a lot of engines and I respect your opinion. Have you seen first hand proof of any benefit of regular 'steam cleaning'?
The cleaning does more for softening the carbon so the compression seals can continue to move freely and make max compression however, the steam isn't powerfull enough to remove the thick baked on carbon that's on the rotor face unless you do it excessively (like poman did). It's possible poman's excessive cleaning and final seafoam treatment caused a big carbon chunk to finally break away from the rotor face and damage the engine. I'm sure youv'e heard the numerious complaints of rotary's flooding. Sticking seals is the number 1 cause of this. You get too much carbon build-up in between the seals and they get stuck which lowers your compression. Back when my car had over 90k on it, I let it sit up in winter for 3 months without starting it. I finally went out in 35 degree weather and did 3 cold starts in under 3mins to see if I could make it flood. It didn't and fired up every time. When I blew the engine at 108k I opened it to find lots of carbon on the rotors but very little in the seal grooves.
Bottom line: If you want to do steam cleaning it's ok on occasion regardless of mileage. Doing it excessively is only safe if you start with a new or newly rebuilt engine thats virtually carbon free because now your slowing the carbon building process. Excessive cleanings on hi mileage engines can be dangerious since you don't want large chunks to breaks off. Oh yea, I always let the AWS do it's thing at 1st start-up. I know it's main design is to accelerate the warm up of the cat but it does have an additional advantage. It helps burn away the excessive gas that gets injected into the engine at cold start. When you blip the throttle to cancle the feature, all your really doing is allowing the excessive gas to stick to the rotor face. This allows for more carbon to build-up. Creating extra carbon is something you don't really want to do in these engine. Anyone saying that the AWS feature will harm the engine doesn't know what their talking about as my engine is proff with no unusual bearing wear.
08-08-09, 04:38 PM
#28
08-08-09, 07:21 PM
#29
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For some reason, I don't think the seafoam would have hurt anything. Although, as previously stated it's not really designed to be added to oil and driven very far. Usually, like ATF, it can be added to oil before an oil change (idled for 20 mins) to help break up gunk in the oil pan. Problem that DOES exist is breaking up too much gunk and stuffing up the oil pickup. Seen this happen in land rovers a few times... they are gunky turds - especially mine.
I've used seafoam several times in the past - but never on a rotary. It's a detergent that when ingested through an intake vacuum, then let sit, can really clean up a gunky top-end on a piston motor. Sticky intake valves etc... Even if your OMP passed some into the combustion chamber I really doubt it would have caused detonation... Definitely do as the rest have advised:
Change oil/plugs. Do a compression test. Check vacuum lines twice.
Good luck.
I've used seafoam several times in the past - but never on a rotary. It's a detergent that when ingested through an intake vacuum, then let sit, can really clean up a gunky top-end on a piston motor. Sticky intake valves etc... Even if your OMP passed some into the combustion chamber I really doubt it would have caused detonation... Definitely do as the rest have advised:
Change oil/plugs. Do a compression test. Check vacuum lines twice.
Good luck.
08-08-09, 07:24 PM
#30
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08-09-09, 06:36 AM
#36
Coolant seal will not cause low compression.
From the readings provided, I would say that you have a chipped apex seal on the rear rotor that has caused just a slight amount of damage to the rotor housing. This will bring all the readings down for each rotor face.
Here is a customer's build with very similar readings/symptoms, the car still ran, he actually drove it to the shop. http://www.banzai-racing.com/2008_cu..._breakdown.htm
Failure was one chipped seal
From the readings provided, I would say that you have a chipped apex seal on the rear rotor that has caused just a slight amount of damage to the rotor housing. This will bring all the readings down for each rotor face.
Here is a customer's build with very similar readings/symptoms, the car still ran, he actually drove it to the shop. http://www.banzai-racing.com/2008_cu..._breakdown.htm
Failure was one chipped seal
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 08-09-09 at 06:40 AM.
08-09-09, 07:48 AM
#37
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Coolant seal will not cause low compression.
From the readings provided, I would say that you have a chipped apex seal on the rear rotor that has caused just a slight amount of damage to the rotor housing. This will bring all the readings down for each rotor face.
Here is a customer's build with very similar readings/symptoms, the car still ran, he actually drove it to the shop. http://www.banzai-racing.com/2008_cu..._breakdown.htm
Failure was one chipped seal
From the readings provided, I would say that you have a chipped apex seal on the rear rotor that has caused just a slight amount of damage to the rotor housing. This will bring all the readings down for each rotor face.
Here is a customer's build with very similar readings/symptoms, the car still ran, he actually drove it to the shop. http://www.banzai-racing.com/2008_cu..._breakdown.htm
Failure was one chipped seal
08-09-09, 07:49 AM
#38
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For some reason, I don't think the seafoam would have hurt anything. Although, as previously stated it's not really designed to be added to oil and driven very far. Usually, like ATF, it can be added to oil before an oil change (idled for 20 mins) to help break up gunk in the oil pan. Problem that DOES exist is breaking up too much gunk and stuffing up the oil pickup. Seen this happen in land rovers a few times... they are gunky turds - especially mine.
I've used seafoam several times in the past - but never on a rotary. It's a detergent that when ingested through an intake vacuum, then let sit, can really clean up a gunky top-end on a piston motor. Sticky intake valves etc... Even if your OMP passed some into the combustion chamber I really doubt it would have caused detonation... Definitely do as the rest have advised:
Change oil/plugs. Do a compression test. Check vacuum lines twice.
Good luck.
I've used seafoam several times in the past - but never on a rotary. It's a detergent that when ingested through an intake vacuum, then let sit, can really clean up a gunky top-end on a piston motor. Sticky intake valves etc... Even if your OMP passed some into the combustion chamber I really doubt it would have caused detonation... Definitely do as the rest have advised:
Change oil/plugs. Do a compression test. Check vacuum lines twice.
Good luck.
08-09-09, 07:51 AM
#39
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I'm not sure what that adds up to but I'd say getting 5 mpg at the track is about average.
08-09-09, 08:58 AM
#41
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Those readings along with the lumpy exhaust note (<---just remembered this from your original post) don't bode well. I'll bet if you closely watch the vacuum at idle it has a regular fluctuation 
08-09-09, 11:03 AM
#44
Rich understood what I was saying, if you are getting 11mpg on the street you are romping on the car pretty much non-stop. In summer temps it really isnt that suprising you chipped a seal, I still dont think the blame falls on the seafoam. Either way, good luck in whatever direction you take, if you stay with the rotary get stronger more forgiving seals.
08-09-09, 12:17 PM
#47
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from seafoam's website:
i wasn't sure about adding it to the oil system either, but it sounds like they think its alright. 100 percent petroleum product.
As a fuel system additive, Sea Foam will clean fuel injectors, clean carbon, gum and varnish deposits, add lubricity to fuel, stabilize fuel for 2 years and control moisture.
As an oil system additive, Sea Foam controls moisture, gum, varnish and residue deposits.
As an oil system additive, Sea Foam controls moisture, gum, varnish and residue deposits.
08-09-09, 01:29 PM
#48
This was not a hot summer day. Temperature was 72F, air intake was 29C, coolant temp was 85C. Knock number was high though 89 when it's normally 25. boost on the PFC was 0.8bar. The plugs were brand new 9s all around.
I still think it's the seafoam being injected through the oil injector. This motor is a Malloy reman with mostly new internals 5 years old with 29K on it. 95 psi on the front is pretty good considering the age and abuse.
08-09-09, 10:53 PM
#49
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08-09-09, 11:01 PM
#50
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Is it [likely] an additive such as seafoam would cause detonation in a rotary? I do know they don't fair well when detonation is a factor.
The odd part is that 8oz was added to the oil, which will make it's way to the combustion chamber, but in very small amounts. Would a very small amount diluted in oil still cause detonation?
- I know if you had the answer we wouldn't be here. I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
Best of luck.