"The difference, you'll get laid a lot more in a Viper".

Ummm, I wouldn't go that far.

 

Bullshit. *Maybe* a gen one Viper. Maybe. But you'll be outperforming the SRT-10.

Plus, anyone who uses a car to get themselves laid needs to reexamine their priorities.

 

Besides... just about every woman I've met thinks the RX *IS* a Viper

 

lol, yep, every girl thinks it's a viper or a Supra?

 

^ haha women ..................

 

I've reexamined my prorities. Damn, I gotta replace those Mazda logos with Efinis soon.

[ducking from flame war]

 

^ haha, ill take the heat away from ya.... i just ordered a set of the flying-M badges

 

The FD has a performance "envelope" when you start saying "dominate" a Viper, Lambo, Ferarri or Z06 Vette (NSX has only 270-290hp) realize any REAL world professional driver will notice that the FD is just being pushed beyond it's performance envelope. The diff is too small, the brakes are too small, etc... Sure everything can be upgraded but after a while you'll have tons more $$ invested in your FD than the Viper. Similar reasons follow if you want a fast car don't start with a Civic, those guys spend $20k+ on their $15K cars to have LESS overall performance than a E36 M3.

Look at any dyno graph of a FD that can beat a Viper or Z06 in a straight line and lay that graph over the competitions dyno graphs. 200-300hp spike over just 500-1000 increase rpm is NOT easy to drive or easy to deal with. In the real world the FD will never dominate the Viper.

 

i agree with you that *many* expensive things (besides the motor) must be upgraded, and i agree with you about the dyno graphs if we're talking about a 13b.. however there are other rotary motors (20b) that actually have decent torque and HP possibilities. i guess one just has to realize what point the costs of their FD start getting to the price of an expensive exotic, and then decide where to put your $$$. an FD that you invest 30K into will not have the same resale value... where as, an exotic will hold the money you invest into it.

the other thing to factor in is not having $60K upfront for an exotic, and having to upgrade as you get more money. i guess you could look at hte FD as a payment plan/credit car for speed.... where an expensive exotic is like buying your acceleration with cash in hand...... i know its a stupid analogy sorry. basically the take home message is that acceleration in f*ckin expensive no matter how you cut it

 

This thread is ridiculous. There is no way a FD will ever "dominate" a Viper (unless every part is replaced in the FD) - and you really can't even say the FD can beat the Viper on a track - autocross yeah, but other than that even a stock Viper will stay with a FD in the turns and pull away with it's torque in the straights. The new Vipers run 11.7 at 123 on street tires. I don't know of many FDs that can break into the 11s on street tires. The guy that bought my FD had a Viper even with 380rwhp in the FD - it would never "dominate" the Viper. There is a point where enough torque will win most races. You figure a full bolt-on, streetported FD with BNR 3s running 17 psi will pull over 400 rwhp and get you 125 traps but that still doesn't dominate a Viper - only slightly pull it. Now the 600-700 rwhp FDs - that's different.

 

Hands down the Viper is superior to the FD. Not to start a displacement war, but the Viper is a 8.9L V-10. I mean come-on, there is a ton of potential. Tune that guy up just a little bit and it will beat almost any single turbo FD, strip or track. There is one thing I do love more about the FD than the Viper (other than the price that is). The FD just seems like it would be more fun to own. Now I don't own a Viper, but I love taking my FD apart and putting new parts on it. Just so much fun.
M-P

 

hmm well i bought my 88 crx for 2k then swaped a motor for 1k then some performance parts for 1k. All together 4k spend. Now have 13sec all motor car. I do hang with 30k cars all the time.....

 

Hang with them where, on just a 1/4 mile run? How about a real track?

In the end, it's still a Civic. Same thing with an FD. You can mod it to take Vipers on, but in the end, it's still a FD not a Viper. I've gotten that "Hey, is that a Viper?" thing before. The people are all excited thinking it's a Viper until you tell them it's a Mazda and then they don't care about the car anymore. Kind of like people's reactions to fake diamonds.

If you have the money and time, you can make any car fast. That doesn't make it "better" then other cars.

 

I dunno a 1999 RX7 is pretty sexy. Whats the weight difference between viper and a 3rd gen RX?

 

Well, first off, you won't be getting a 1999 RX7 here in the USA.

Vipers are usually around 3400lbs at around 450hp with 490lbs of torque. FD's are around 2800lbs at around 255hp. Do the math....

 

no one has entertained the 20b idea...... if you are running a 20b in your FD there is definatly potential and hope for "dominating" vipers as you say.... its most definatly a stretch for a 13b, but as *0110-M-P* mentioned its all about displacement... hence the 20b. just my 2 cents, heath

 

Well there is a 20B section for that kind of crazy talk as you know.

 

Good your a great example. First the E36 M3 is a $15-20K car, not a $30K.

Now that M3 has real BRAKES, a real powerband, real chassis development, real creature comforts like AC, PS, and is emissions legal. Rear drive is also better suited for higher HP cars, you can argue all you want. Torque steer sucks, the front tires turning and putting the power down sucks.

For $4K you've got a good performing CRX, but it isn't a complete package like the M3. If you just want to compare 1/4 miles for the least $$ buy a bike and be done with it. Nothing can touch them. Otherwise with cars there is much more to a car than it's performance #'s, there is a real world livability, comfort, handling, braking, chassis dynamics. Just by putting the bigger motor in your CRX you probably bumped it's weight distribution to 65/35 or 70/30, not good.

 

Crazy?! I scoff at that notion!

 

a doctor i knwo gave me a ride in his new viper and it didnt' seel all taht fast when he floored it but it was fast alot faster then a vett tahts for sure. but with the rigth mods i think an fd can take him he told me in the sprign we will see how mien fairs with my new turbos on there i am shootign for 400rwhp if i lose i dotn care if i win will be fun to see. doens't mean i am goin to be liek ahah told you i woudl beat you.
joel

 

Joel, not to poke fun but do you look at your keyboard when you type? It appears that most of the words you do not spell correctly have letters which are flip-flopped in position. Not that I am being a spelling ****, but how can you hit submit knowing that every word you write has the letter "h" is in the wrong position?

 

The RX-7 I don't believe was designed to be king in the straight line drag racing. It is an excellent all around car. Handling, acceleration and layout make this car so special. I don't think this car should be used only to "kill vipers and ferraris". You should road race your car against vipers, you would probably be neck to neck with a viper with a few decent suspension upgrades.

 

yea! a 20b buddy....finally , someone understands ! BTW are you using a pettit subframe? nice turbo too!

 

Yeah... so how much does the extra weight of the 20B affect handling, not to mention that huge turbo mounted in front of the axles and the front mount intercooler?

Just curious, since everyone seems so concerned with how a V8 affects weight distribution and handling. Odd how no one cares when it's a 20B...

 

But of course not Jim! They're "enthusiasts"!