Do 20B conversions "ruin" a otherwise good FD?
12-18-09, 08:45 PM
#1
Do 20B conversions "ruin" a otherwise good FD?
I guess this is more of a personal opinion, but just wondering what you guys feel of a nice 20B swap in an FD? Do you think it makes the car "better", or potentially ruins what the FD was originally intended? Would you feel any different if were done to a mode rare FD, such as a CYM? Reason I ask, is because I am in the middle of a swap on my '94 BB R2. The car is very clean, ~70k original miles. My plan is for a N/A 20B, and for a more racey, yet streetable setup. No A/C or P/S, etc.. I was just sitting starting at my car today and just wondering if I would be better off sticking with a more conservative setup, maybe a set of BNRs on a stock engine, and then doing my 20B thing on a high milage 93 or something. Is it dumb to think this way?
12-18-09, 09:20 PM
#3
Preheated Badger
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I would go with a 20B if I had the money as well. Its up to you though if you want to keep a "clean" RX-7 with the REW and have a secondary 20B build. Just keep in mind its going to take a lot of money and time do get it running right so if its your only FD your going to be without it for a while.
12-18-09, 09:27 PM
#4
Yes, it's personal opinion. My opinion is "go big or go home". If your tackling the task of a 20B, why give it the power of a stock FD with bolt-ons by keeping it NA? The point of a 3 rotor swap is to make big power more reliably.
As far as wanting it to be "racey"...... are you going to race the car?
I may understand your direction of the NA with decent numbers and NA reliability, but for the price, you could build a super reliable REW setup twice, for the same money.
As far as wanting it to be "racey"...... are you going to race the car?
I may understand your direction of the NA with decent numbers and NA reliability, but for the price, you could build a super reliable REW setup twice, for the same money.
12-18-09, 09:48 PM
#6
20b should have been an option in the 1st place. Also it is NOT my opinion that a 20b swap has to have an ungodly amount of hp to justify the install. Far too many people around here only care about dyno queen hp figures. Rxmfn7 whatever your purpose is for building the car, just stay true to that purpose. Also just understand the engine you have is far more rare than the car your putting it in. Their are only about 4000 examples of these things. So do something special with it. 
12-18-09, 09:51 PM
#7
Haha, thanks guys. I really want to continue with my project and in my FD, as it was my 1st one and I worked very hard to get it, and looked hard to find exactly what I wanted. I just needed someone who was as insane about these cars as me to tell me it was still ok Id ultimately like to finish my 20B car, and then pick up a clean CYM to just do subtle mods to and keep relatively stock.
Id ultimately like to finish my 20B car, and then pick up a clean CYM to just do subtle mods to and keep relatively stock.
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12-18-09, 09:55 PM
#8
That being said, I woudnt worry about whatever you do with your 94 R2. Its your car. I read something one time I thought pertained well to the situation:
"Not driving your car so it wont lose value when you sell it is akin to not having sex with your hot girl friend so she's more desirable to the next guy"
Who gives an eff what the next person would think of what you did to YOUR FD
12-18-09, 10:24 PM
#9
Snowboarding Whistler!
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Couldn't agree more with BryanDowns. 20B is an amazing engine, and I can't wait unitl I can afford to install one. Good luck with the build, would love to follow a build thread
12-19-09, 01:09 AM
#13
go team shake
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there is a guy who just posted in the 20b section. its about his first rotary its a 20b spirit-r. there is nothing wrong with putting a rare motor into a rare car, that **** would be insane.
12-19-09, 06:34 AM
#14
20b should have been an option in the 1st place. Also it is NOT my opinion that a 20b swap has to have an ungodly amount of hp to justify the install. Far too many people around here only care about dyno queen hp figures. Rxmfn7 whatever your purpose is for building the car, just stay true to that purpose. Also just understand the engine you have is far more rare than the car your putting it in. Their are only about 4000 examples of these things. So do something special with it.
Making 500whp reliably has nothing to do with the dyno....... maybe you have some confused with the Supra crowd. I always thought that word was funny.... "dyno queen". Like there is something tacky and impure about wanting to make more power....LOL
12-19-09, 08:08 AM
#16
Not that this was the point of the thread, and I dont want to to go in this direction. but maybe you havent been around or seen what some of the N/A 20B cars are capable of especially as of lately. Built right with correct suppoting mods, Im hoping to make ~375RWHP N/A. This setup will not be any heavier than the factory 13b-REW setup. Yes it will be plus 1 rotor/housing, but minus heavy cast turbos, plumbing, and intercooler. There is something just different about driving a well setup N/A car. The instant throttle response, constant power, and the sound a 3-rotor makes it unlike any 13b. After driving my S2000 (although slow), , Ive fallen in love with the responsiveness of the car, and looking to put the same sort of driving dynamics into my FD. I understand its not for everyone and will cost me just as much as it would have to turbo the 20B and make a bazillion HP, but thats not what I want for this car.
I agree... stay true to the build and you don't need an "ungodly amount of power" to justify it. But NA??? Seriously??? You would have a car that made the same power and handled worse than a stock FD with bolt-ons.
Making 500whp reliably has nothing to do with the dyno....... maybe you have some confused with the Supra crowd. I always thought that word was funny.... "dyno queen". Like there is something tacky and impure about wanting to make more power....LOL
Making 500whp reliably has nothing to do with the dyno....... maybe you have some confused with the Supra crowd. I always thought that word was funny.... "dyno queen". Like there is something tacky and impure about wanting to make more power....LOL
12-19-09, 09:56 AM
#17
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Does a 20b swap ruin an FD? Yes and no.
DONE RIGHT, you can end up with a fantastic car and a showcase under the hood with OEM reliability. But, doing a job that big RIGHT is not easy. People end up cutting corners - rubber hoses running everywhere, sloppy wiring, dirty engine bay, cheap/hacked in parts, etc. The costs to do it right are high as well, and when you start cutting corners it ruins the project.
By the same token I've seen a number of single turbo FD's that were a horror show under the hood. Everything sloppy and crappy. Many times it's lack of experience and not knowing how to do something better, sometimes it's being cheap or rushing things.
A 20b swap is a VERY big undertaking, re-engineering many of the systems under the hood. It can easily turn into a non-running project that gets abandoned when the going gets tough.
Oh, and I'm not a fan of removing AC from an FD, especially working AC. Up north might be another situation, but down south when it's summer a car with no AC is a joke.
Dale
DONE RIGHT, you can end up with a fantastic car and a showcase under the hood with OEM reliability. But, doing a job that big RIGHT is not easy. People end up cutting corners - rubber hoses running everywhere, sloppy wiring, dirty engine bay, cheap/hacked in parts, etc. The costs to do it right are high as well, and when you start cutting corners it ruins the project.
By the same token I've seen a number of single turbo FD's that were a horror show under the hood. Everything sloppy and crappy. Many times it's lack of experience and not knowing how to do something better, sometimes it's being cheap or rushing things.
A 20b swap is a VERY big undertaking, re-engineering many of the systems under the hood. It can easily turn into a non-running project that gets abandoned when the going gets tough.
Oh, and I'm not a fan of removing AC from an FD, especially working AC. Up north might be another situation, but down south when it's summer a car with no AC is a joke.
Dale
12-19-09, 11:53 AM
#18
Having those "rare" model FD's dont mean much anymore IMHO.
If you have an FD, and its in good condition, do what you want to it.
We're not getting any younger, the economy is not getting any better, we have to do what we want to make outselves enjoy our remaining days on this earth.
To sum it up, yes DO IT SON!!! lol
I would. Even if i had a 1 out of 10 rare FD models lol, i dont care.
If you have an FD, and its in good condition, do what you want to it.
We're not getting any younger, the economy is not getting any better, we have to do what we want to make outselves enjoy our remaining days on this earth.
To sum it up, yes DO IT SON!!! lol
I would. Even if i had a 1 out of 10 rare FD models lol, i dont care.
12-19-09, 12:35 PM
#20
Not that this was the point of the thread, and I dont want to to go in this direction. but maybe you havent been around or seen what some of the N/A 20B cars are capable of especially as of lately. Built right with correct suppoting mods, Im hoping to make ~375RWHP N/A. This setup will not be any heavier than the factory 13b-REW setup. Yes it will be plus 1 rotor/housing, but minus heavy cast turbos, plumbing, and intercooler. There is something just different about driving a well setup N/A car. The instant throttle response, constant power, and the sound a 3-rotor makes it unlike any 13b. After driving my S2000 (although slow), , Ive fallen in love with the responsiveness of the car, and looking to put the same sort of driving dynamics into my FD. I understand its not for everyone and will cost me just as much as it would have to turbo the 20B and make a bazillion HP, but thats not what I want for this car.
If I had a pet lion, I wouldn't teach it tricks like fetch..... I would teach it to eat people alive on command.
Thus, my reasoning.
Any 20B swap gets instant credit regardless... If your up to the challenge, I don't think you would regret it no matter if it was NA or turbo.
Good luck OP.
12-20-09, 06:34 AM
#22
As for the 20B being the same as putting in an LS1, for me it's not even close. Keep the rotary a rotary but improve it to supercar status by doing the 20B conversion. IMO, you then have what Mazda should have put into the car in the first place, a high horsepower, high torque rotary monster. Yes, it is a pain in the a** to do the conversion and costs way more than most anticipate, but in the end the ride is like nothing else and the sound of the exhaust just screams at you. By today's standards, my 20B at 650 HP is relatively mild now days compared to some of the other cars, but it's way more horsepower than is possible for someone of my driving skills to use. The 20B makes the car truly unique. The LS1 makes it bastardized in my opinion and if you want to do this, go get a gold chain, a Hugh Heffner smoking jacket, and buy a Corvette
12-20-09, 06:41 AM
#23
Dale is right on all accounts with this post. Most think the 20B will cost $10- $15K to plop in. I guess this is possible if you do it yourself (there are many threads on the cost of a 20B conversion) but the reality is you'll spend way more than this to do it right. Easily plan on $30K if you can't do it all yourself and if you want a high level of OEM like quality, plan on about $50K. The lease expensive and maybe the best conversions I have seen recently come from Defined Autoworks and they now have a conversion kit that allows you to keep your AC, as Dale points out is a must in FL.
Clean and OEM-like costs money. For me it is a pursuit of perfection and a never-ending project. The car I'll bring back this year to DGRRX is a much more refined one but is still not up to my standards. I see what Rich has done with his conversion and I keep reassessing my engine bay and reconfiguring
Clean and OEM-like costs money. For me it is a pursuit of perfection and a never-ending project. The car I'll bring back this year to DGRRX is a much more refined one but is still not up to my standards. I see what Rich has done with his conversion and I keep reassessing my engine bay and reconfiguring
Does a 20b swap ruin an FD? Yes and no.
DONE RIGHT, you can end up with a fantastic car and a showcase under the hood with OEM reliability. But, doing a job that big RIGHT is not easy. People end up cutting corners - rubber hoses running everywhere, sloppy wiring, dirty engine bay, cheap/hacked in parts, etc. The costs to do it right are high as well, and when you start cutting corners it ruins the project.
By the same token I've seen a number of single turbo FD's that were a horror show under the hood. Everything sloppy and crappy. Many times it's lack of experience and not knowing how to do something better, sometimes it's being cheap or rushing things.
A 20b swap is a VERY big undertaking, re-engineering many of the systems under the hood. It can easily turn into a non-running project that gets abandoned when the going gets tough.
Oh, and I'm not a fan of removing AC from an FD, especially working AC. Up north might be another situation, but down south when it's summer a car with no AC is a joke.
Dale
DONE RIGHT, you can end up with a fantastic car and a showcase under the hood with OEM reliability. But, doing a job that big RIGHT is not easy. People end up cutting corners - rubber hoses running everywhere, sloppy wiring, dirty engine bay, cheap/hacked in parts, etc. The costs to do it right are high as well, and when you start cutting corners it ruins the project.
By the same token I've seen a number of single turbo FD's that were a horror show under the hood. Everything sloppy and crappy. Many times it's lack of experience and not knowing how to do something better, sometimes it's being cheap or rushing things.
A 20b swap is a VERY big undertaking, re-engineering many of the systems under the hood. It can easily turn into a non-running project that gets abandoned when the going gets tough.
Oh, and I'm not a fan of removing AC from an FD, especially working AC. Up north might be another situation, but down south when it's summer a car with no AC is a joke.
Dale
