i seen a few piston buddies got their motor parts cyrogenic. they said it really help their strengthen thier motors. has anyone ever try cyrogenic the housings and even the rotors themselves? is it worth it to have those parts cyrogenic? what do you guys think in the matter??

 

After having some success with brake rotors and pads with this process, I am very interested in what it might do for engine parts. However, I understand that cryo on some parts makes the break-in procedure much longer and perhaps results in a less than ideal result from a sealing perspective. I never spoke to them about it directly, but I think that Pineapple Racing did some work in this area. It is probably worth a call to see what they have to say.

-Max

 

cryogenic ..so we gonna freeze the engine to preserve it for the future?..hahah just kidding guys. could someone explain what this actually is? im a bit curious myself.

 

Yeah Cryogenic is just that - you cool it to a very low temprature and then bring it back again very slowely.

The main benefit of this is that it gets rid of Stress imperfections in metals at a dendritic level. This can have many benefits mainly increasing strucural stability. This is due to that fact that when a stress component is put under extreeme trauma any imperfections in the structure (which their are a lot of in cast and especially machined componenets) are liable to effectively grow and be the start of fracture or other undesirable artifcact.

I get Rotors cryo treated in Germany for a very good price - you wouldn't belive the positive effect that this has on resiting warping.

Engine components now im not as sure on this- as from memmory im not sure if there are any side effects such as hardening which may be undesirable in a rotory engine and since im still far from a expert in the stresses that each component of the 13b engine experience i wouldn't like to make a sepculation at this time- it is long time since i did the research on this so it might be a little patchy.

 

WoW Nico you are a nerd... Thank you! That was refreshing to see.

Anyone actually tried it on a rotor or housing? Anyone call Pineapple?

 

I had mine done last year during the rebuild. I guess that I wont know how well it works
until I tear it down ........ and I have no plans on doing it soon. One thing I did notice is
that my water temps are 10 degrees lower. It may coincidence or directly related to the
cryo.

 

The temp difference is probably related to the cooling system. Temps in the combustion chamber won't be any lower, and unless your rotors are now absorbing a ton of heat (and storing it), they wouldn't cause water temps to drop.

 

Not necessarily if the internal parts are made to transfer heat more efficiently the temps
will drop. The cooling system stayed the same.

 

No worries

LMAO yeah i have big *** rimmed specs and trousers up to my ******* and ****

 

Bill, I was just saying that even if the rotors could transfer heat better, it wouldn't effect the cooling system. The rotors are constantly exposed to combustion temperatures. And, they are in the center of the engine, they don't have a cooling system themselves, so the heat from them transfers outward, towards the block and housing.

If they were transfering energy more efficiently (or absorb a ton of heat) you might see water temperatures being lower while the rotors collected heat. But, eventually they will get to a high temp and stay that way (assuming you are driving in a uniform manner). Once the rotor gets to it's level temp the water temp should be the same as before.

The key here is that the rotors don't release heat outside of the engine. Everything going on in the combustion chambers has to leave the engine via the block.

As well, if your rotor could hold more heat energy than before (meaning it could get hotter) you might actually see your temps go up. If they held less they would probably warp easier.

 

I can tell you the biggest benifit that high hp applications get out of cryo treatment is flex. Most dragsters, ect that have a ton of hp have thier block treated to it wont flex. The flex caused the crank to warp and get things out of spec.

Due to the design of the rotory I could see where flex would be a huge issue, much more so than a piston engine with a block. The only prob is I dont think cryo treating it will help flew with the rotory, the prob isnt that the parts arent strong enough but rather the design in the way there are connected with pins. I thought about sending my pins off to be cryo treated but in all honesty people are runnin 600rwhp on non cryo treated engine with good tuning. I think I'd rather put the money toward tuning than cryo. Thats what I decided anyway.

You might try cryo treating all the compression points like apex seals/spring and side seals/springs. It might help them live a longer life. The only thing is I dont want to be the person to throw away a new set of apex seals and have to redo my motor cause it didnt work.

I THINK it would be ok but I'm not putting my $$$ on it.

Also cryo treating doesnt actually make the metal HARDER, it makes it stronger. There is a big difference. If its more hard its more brittle. The super cold temp realign the molecules to for a stronger bond. Thats about the only way I know of explaining it.

Good luck,
STEPHEN

 

Rotors are cooled the same way as in piston engines (well some which spray under the pistons) - by oil flow. The inside of the rotors are cooled by oil. Just wanted to clear this up.

Any tuners have any experience with cryo of rotary engine parts?

 

Exactly which pieces of the engine were frosted? Rotors, housings, shaft, bolts?...

How much did it cost you? The unfreezing process that is...