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So my FD build is coming along nicely (thanks COVID for all the extra shop time!), and it's time to select an upgraded intercooler for the stock mount location. I actually did a few "de-mods" on this FD already to (a) moved the battery (regular group 35 size) back under the hood as I don't like it in the bin and the job the PO did there needed a re-do anyway, and (b) I got rid of the FMIC, replaced the missing bumper rebar structure and placed a new Koyo N-flow radiator in a stock mounted configuration so I could get working AC back in the car (that project is ongoing too). It's running a single Borg Warner SXE 364.5 turbo, 1.0 AR turbine housing, dual open dump external waste gates on a Turblown welded tubular manifold managed by a Link G4+ ECU that I just rewired, along with all the necessary fuel system mods, so I'm figuring once it's tuned it will be a solid 350~380 RWHP motor just like my FC build, which I capped at a 15psi boost limit. Since my FC does that with the puny stock S5T2 top mount intercooler, I figure an upgraded SMIC in an FD could do the same, if I can duct air thru it properly.
I already know there are no 100% "drop in" kits on the market that will work in my case without some fab work, which is fine, so I'm trying to select the best intercooler on the market for the available space I have and go from there. What have you guys with similar builds using for a SMIC and what kind of IAT's are you logging?
As far as what's on the market, I've read good things about the M2 medium SMIC upgrade, and the PFS upgrades. Also this Rotary Works setup looks interesting for my application - it's an upgraded SMIC & duct combo, and I'd be on my own for piping -- https://www.rotary-works.com/interco...-IC0084-SHROUD Anybody using this one?
Speaking of which, here's a few pictures of the space I'm working with. Using cardboard boxes to mock up the installation - the box pictured measures 14"x12"x3.5", going to be a tight fit!
Front view View from passenger side View from driver's side Overhead view
The hardest part with a stock mount is the duct. A good duct is a must for a SMIC.
What sort of battery do you have in there? I can't tell from the pictures. Larger batteries (like stock size) limits SMIC room. The 51r battery tray is a good way to go to get more room, and it uses a very commonly available Honda battery. Jeff Hoskinson originally made that tray but I believe some other company is producing them now.
Pettit Racing is a good source for ducts if not the IC itself.
The hardest part with a stock mount is the duct. A good duct is a must for a SMIC.
What sort of battery do you have in there? I can't tell from the pictures. Larger batteries (like stock size) limits SMIC room. The 51r battery tray is a good way to go to get more room, and it uses a very commonly available Honda battery. Jeff Hoskinson originally made that tray but I believe some other company is producing them now.
Pettit Racing is a good source for ducts if not the IC itself.
Dale
I have the standard size group 35 battery in there, the 51R is slightly longer, about same height but about 2" narrower than a group 35 battery. DIY fabricating a battery tray for a 51R doesn't look too hard to do, so that will be my fall back position if I need a couple of inches. Speaking of the ducting, that's why I thought the Rotary Works link was interesting; looks like a pretty good solution.
Originally Posted by gracer7-rx7
Was coming to suggest the Pettit IC and duct but looks like Dale beat me to it
Getting the IC piping routed properly in a DIY manner is a pita and can be pricey unless you can cut and weld aluminum yourself
I'm not up to the pipe welding task yet, but I can handle the design, cutting & mock up part just fine. I have a local welder/fab guy that I could tap to weld stuff for me for a reasonable cost. Basically I'd just give him the pipes all pre-cut & index marked for correct orientation and he does the rest
I have the standard size group 35 battery in there, the 51R is slightly longer, about same height but about 2" narrower than a group 35 battery. DIY fabricating a battery tray for a 51R doesn't look too hard to do, so that will be my fall back position if I need a couple of inches. Speaking of the ducting, that's why I thought the Rotary Works link was interesting; looks like a pretty good solution.
I'm not up to the pipe welding task yet, but I can handle the design, cutting & mock up part just fine. I have a local welder/fab guy that I could tap to weld stuff for me for a reasonable cost. Basically I'd just give him the pipes all pre-cut & index marked for correct orientation and he does the rest
Sorry, I don't want to bash, but the small rotary works IC is barely adequate for twins. It's a joke for a 380 whp single. The 400-600 whp rating is BS. It's an over-under end tank IC, so most of the potential core volume you pick up by making the IC longer is taken up by end tanks. It's a 280 cubic inch core. For reference... The M2 medium is about the same total volume and gives you over 500 cubic inches of core.
If you don't want to relocate battery... M2 or similar. If you can relocate the battery the big Pettit should work. The U-type intercoolers are pretty awesome too and allow the battery to stay
Without forcing air thru a SMIC they are basically a heat resevoir that starts off cold and progressively gets hotter. I have put a ram air duct extension on my M2 and am in the process of fitting a 9" SPAL puller fan to it. The duct extension helps tremendously at speed, but if you are slowed down or stopped it still heat soaks.
I think heat soak is true when stopped for any IC. The big thing is the volume and temperature of fresh air it can get when moving. A good duct makes a world of difference for any IC.
Sorry, I don't want to bash, but the small rotary works IC is barely adequate for twins. It's a joke for a 380 whp single. The 400-600 whp rating is BS. It's an over-under end tank IC, so most of the potential core volume you pick up by making the IC longer is taken up by end tanks. It's a 280 cubic inch core. For reference... The M2 medium is about the same total volume and gives you over 500 cubic inches of core.
No offense taken, I haven't dived too deep in the RW cooler specs; I ignore whatever HP "rating" any IC vendor touts because that's an inherently BS rating anyway. What I did like about the RW cooler at first glance was they included CFM flow rate figures measured at specific pressures, and that you can buy just the IC and ducting as a kit, minus the piping which would have to be made custom anyway.
Originally Posted by alexdimen
If you don't want to relocate battery... M2 or similar. If you can relocate the battery the big Pettit should work. The U-type intercoolers are pretty awesome too and allow the battery to stay
Without forcing air thru a SMIC they are basically a heat resevoir that starts off cold and progressively gets hotter. I have put a ram air duct extension on my M2 and am in the process of fitting a 9" SPAL puller fan to it. The duct extension helps tremendously at speed, but if you are slowed down or stopped it still heat soaks.
Definitely not relocating the battery, but wouldn't be opposed to going with a thinner 51R battery to gain a few inches.Concur with good ducting and ensuring you have good ambient airflow thru whatever IC you're using.
Originally Posted by DaleClark
I think heat soak is true when stopped for any IC. The big thing is the volume and temperature of fresh air it can get when moving. A good duct makes a world of difference for any IC.
Dale
^Very true, and that's why my FC's stock top mount IC works so well, even on a motor that is north of 350RWHP. I consistently log IATs that are roughly 10~40*F above whatever the ambient temps are, where the high end of that is coming off a heat soak. Drive around a bit while staying off boost and the IATs are back to 10* above ambient. That functional T2 hood scoop does wonders for making that little IC work well.
Heat soak on an FD SMIC is an entirely different animal because you are rejecting 200F radiator heat right onto the intercooler. That's why VMICs are king - intercooler heat goes up, radiator heat goes down.
VMICs are illegal in my SCCA class... or at least re-mounting the radiator is. I can't wait until I get moving to get my IATs down because we are competing for time. Air temperature is power. My solution is to grab 1/3 of the bumper opening air with a ram air snorkel and add a fan for when I'm not moving. A little 600 CFM fan is equivalent to a 7mph air speed over a 12"x12" IC core.
51r is alright, but it's still a fairly heavy battery. Had it, needed more space and less weight. Personally, I like the elite rotary tray and a little AGM battery.
If you're keeping the big battery look at mikejokich's u-type intercooler setup. You get massive core volume in a tiny space.
I have the knightsports U-type intercooler and I'm happy with it. Comes with a good duct as well.
Only issue, you will have to relocate the AST to a different location. Can be tricky if you still have the OEM air box, but is doable.
Yeah 51R is still heavy (no where NEAR as heavy as the stocker!) but it has a lot of reserve grunt, it's cheap, and it's easily available. There's also ways to go to a Miata battery, that's what I'm running, also commonly available. I don't want to have a weird battery that I have to special order, I like something I can get from the parts store.
Though I would LOVE one of the new lithium batteries that weigh like 3 pounds!
Though I would LOVE one of the new lithium batteries that weigh like 3 pounds!
Their sales pitch is proper tho, cheapest weight savings per dollar you can get. (apart from eating less and shitting more ofc, but thats to much effort)
After spending some time reviewing what's on the market as "drop in" SMIC upgrades, I'm coming to the conclusion that I can DIY build a kit that is better suited to my needs that will also most likely end up costing me less cash.
With that in mind, I like the physical configuration of this guy....
With the inlet/outlets oriented in the same direction, but on opposite side tanks (i.e., it's not a dual pass U-type design), it will be pretty easy to package & plumb in, plus it has a couple of welded on threaded bosses on each end that I can use for mounting it securely. It's small enough to easily fit in the space available, but I wish the core size was a wee bit longer & thicker - this one is on the smallish side. Unfortunately the next larger core size this particular vendor makes this IC in with same physical configuration are way too big.
Does anyone know of a generic IC that has the same configuration as this one, but with a slightly larger core, say about 13x12X4 inch core, which should end up being about 18x13X4 inches overall?
Don't have an answer to that question, but FYI Pettit Racing sells just their ducts in a few different sizes. I don't know if they are on their web site but that is a good option to help one of the harder parts of the process.
Relocate your battery to the bins and get meatballed on the track. I've seen it happen more than once.
The Blitz SMIC works great for me, even in summer heat at buttonwilliow raceway. It works with the stock intake box, duct & battery (which is nice), and is about twice as thick as stock.
After spending some time reviewing what's on the market as "drop in" SMIC upgrades, I'm coming to the conclusion that I can DIY build a kit that is better suited to my needs that will also most likely end up costing me less cash.
With the inlet/outlets oriented in the same direction, but on opposite side tanks (i.e., it's not a dual pass U-type design), it will be pretty easy to package & plumb in, plus it has a couple of welded on threaded bosses on each end that I can use for mounting it securely. It's small enough to easily fit in the space available, but I wish the core size was a wee bit longer & thicker - this one is on the smallish side. Unfortunately the next larger core size this particular vendor makes this IC in with same physical configuration are way too big.
Does anyone know of a generic IC that has the same configuration as this one, but with a slightly larger core, say about 13x12X4 inch core, which should end up being about 18x13X4 inches overall?
That thing is taller than it is wide and the outlets go straight up. You'll end up with 90 degree silicone bends going thru the hood.
I almost went that route, but decided I didn't have time to hassle with finding a duct (I would prob just modify a stocker with sheet metal). I also wanted the most efficient core possible and the amazon/ebay specials are a big question mark.
That thing is taller than it is wide and the outlets go straight up. You'll end up with 90 degree silicone bends going thru the hood.
^I had something else in mind for an IC core with that configuration, which really isn't a SMIC configuration anymore. Here's a sketch of what I was thinking:
The thought there was to get as much IC surface area and volume into the space available, and to possibly build a plenum large enough to house an air filter for the single turbo. Because my turbo sits forward due to the exhaust manifold, having a plenum that could do double duty as a cold air intake/filter would package things nicely. But I've pretty much abandoned this idea because getting enough smooth airflow through all the heat exchangers without a vented hood is next to impossible.
I almost went that route, but decided I didn't have time to hassle with finding a duct (I would prob just modify a stocker with sheet metal). I also wanted the most efficient core possible and the amazon/ebay specials are a big question mark.
That's my most likely solution - DIY replicating the M2 medium kit that works with a stock/skinny battery. I've reached out to XS Power, asking for more info on their ICs, but they seem to have a problem returning phone calls or replying to emails,
07-06-20, 07:53 PM
