Champagne bubble test diagnostics
12-26-10, 05:37 PM
#1
Champagne bubble test diagnostics
I did the bubble test today and wasn't happy with my results.
It hasn't been started in about a month and a half probably, and it was puffing some white smoke (which i'm not worried about, it's cold and this is normal. Even before it was parked it would puff a bit but stop once it warmed up. Anyways, the bubble test..
Fired it up (almost too easily seeing how cold it is here and how it hasn't even been touched for 6 weeks.) Anyways, not sure how immediately it happened but i did get the bubbles. Extremely tiny, not like other tests I've seen on you tube. The bubbles were about the size off peices of sand (I could video if you guys wanted.)
I don't know how constant I would say the stream of bubbles was either. At some points there was hope for it to stop. It never did though. I gave it a little gas, and the coolant evidently expanded. (I tried to make one of those sealing funnels, what i ended up with though was just a water bottle with the bottom cut off and had it held tight against the rad filler. That being said, I can not say for sure that it was sealed. That being said, I don't know what that would entitle.)
From what I have read, I know this is bad, but on another thread, I heard that if it lets out a big bubble then that's REALLY bad. Not sure what the difference is exactly between bad and really bad.
When I turned it off though, it "burped" twice. I remember reading that this is okay but I'm not sure what it means in terms of a crack in a coolant line or a broken air seperator tank.
I should mention i couldn't exactly identify how quickly the bubbles started.
If any one has any diagnostics for me that would be great or even just a link that I couldn't exactly find to a thread concerning these matter.
It hasn't been started in about a month and a half probably, and it was puffing some white smoke (which i'm not worried about, it's cold and this is normal. Even before it was parked it would puff a bit but stop once it warmed up. Anyways, the bubble test..
Fired it up (almost too easily seeing how cold it is here and how it hasn't even been touched for 6 weeks.) Anyways, not sure how immediately it happened but i did get the bubbles. Extremely tiny, not like other tests I've seen on you tube. The bubbles were about the size off peices of sand (I could video if you guys wanted.)
I don't know how constant I would say the stream of bubbles was either. At some points there was hope for it to stop. It never did though. I gave it a little gas, and the coolant evidently expanded. (I tried to make one of those sealing funnels, what i ended up with though was just a water bottle with the bottom cut off and had it held tight against the rad filler. That being said, I can not say for sure that it was sealed. That being said, I don't know what that would entitle.)
From what I have read, I know this is bad, but on another thread, I heard that if it lets out a big bubble then that's REALLY bad. Not sure what the difference is exactly between bad and really bad.
When I turned it off though, it "burped" twice. I remember reading that this is okay but I'm not sure what it means in terms of a crack in a coolant line or a broken air seperator tank.
I should mention i couldn't exactly identify how quickly the bubbles started.
If any one has any diagnostics for me that would be great or even just a link that I couldn't exactly find to a thread concerning these matter.
12-27-10, 07:51 PM
#2
Try this link from the FAQ thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/big-fat-fd3s-cooling-thread-571088/
There are a few other good ones in the FAQ thread. There is a video in one of them but I don't have time to look so have at it.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/big-fat-fd3s-cooling-thread-571088/
There are a few other good ones in the FAQ thread. There is a video in one of them but I don't have time to look so have at it.
12-27-10, 10:24 PM
#3
I luv my carbon footprint
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tiny little bubbles like that doesn't sound bad. When my engine had that problem the bubbles were about 1/4" in diameter in a constant stream once the temp was about 80 C. Have had problems with the coolant overflow tank actually overflowing on your garage floor once you turn the car off or is there any black goo on the overflow tank dipstick? From my personal experience both of these problems are symptoms of a coolant o ring failure caused by exhaust gasses slowly pressurizing the coolant system and escaping through the overflow tank.
12-28-10, 01:18 AM
#4
Tiny little bubbles like that doesn't sound bad. When my engine had that problem the bubbles were about 1/4" in diameter in a constant stream once the temp was about 80 C. Have had problems with the coolant overflow tank actually overflowing on your garage floor once you turn the car off or is there any black goo on the overflow tank dipstick? From my personal experience both of these problems are symptoms of a coolant o ring failure caused by exhaust gasses slowly pressurizing the coolant system and escaping through the overflow tank.
12-28-10, 08:46 AM
#5
Before spending 6K, spend $100 and purchase a Lisle Yellow funnel and coolant system pressure tester. The funnel will work better than your milk jug when running the car with coolant expanding. Also, the pressure tester will enable you to test your pressure cap for accurate "crack" pressure. Finally, you'll want to pressurize your cooling system and watch for pressure drops and/or leaks. I chased a problem with my system last year and was convinced I needed a rebuild only to discover that my pressure cap was bad. Exhaust all avenues before heading down the rebuild path. You'll be happy you did!!
The following users liked this post:
Mod Bugs (09-20-20)
12-28-10, 09:11 AM
#6
^ Exactly. 
Don't go jumping to conclusions before you pinpoint the problem. 
For all you know, you could be losing pressure because of a bad radiator cap or cracked AST.
I've been through 2 rebuilds with mine in the almost 4 years I've owned it, and I wish I had your money! :P ONLY 6k??
My first was due to an o-ring failure, but we reused the Atkins apex seals since they were within tolerance. The next time disaster struck, my motor puked out 2 apex seals...Now it's built with 3mm RA superseals, studded, and equipped with an RX-8 e-shaft. 
In any case, definitely pressure test the system before going any further. However, you had mentioned porting, so if you're serious about that your motor's going to need to come out/apart anyway. At that point you might as well replace your coolant seals. Nevertheless, if you put everything back together and get the motor back in the car, then the problem still occurs, you have yet another issue to chase (cracked coolant line/AST/bad rad cap). Diagnose the root cause first, and if you do need a rebuild then try to look at it this way - You'd need to pull the motor anyway in order to do the porting.
Good luck man!
Don't go jumping to conclusions before you pinpoint the problem. For all you know, you could be losing pressure because of a bad radiator cap or cracked AST.I've been through 2 rebuilds with mine in the almost 4 years I've owned it, and I wish I had your money! :P ONLY 6k??
My first was due to an o-ring failure, but we reused the Atkins apex seals since they were within tolerance. The next time disaster struck, my motor puked out 2 apex seals...Now it's built with 3mm RA superseals, studded, and equipped with an RX-8 e-shaft. In any case, definitely pressure test the system before going any further. However, you had mentioned porting, so if you're serious about that your motor's going to need to come out/apart anyway. At that point you might as well replace your coolant seals. Nevertheless, if you put everything back together and get the motor back in the car, then the problem still occurs, you have yet another issue to chase (cracked coolant line/AST/bad rad cap). Diagnose the root cause first, and if you do need a rebuild then try to look at it this way - You'd need to pull the motor anyway in order to do the porting.
Good luck man!
12-28-10, 03:22 PM
#7
champagne bubbe test lol... man that test causes more worries than anything.
shoot i have so called failed the bubble test yet i didnt have any coolant related issues. i just did the test for the fun of it and all it did was give me a heartache lol. until i realized i was just being stupid. as it turns out i was because about 20k miles later i needed a rebuild due to detonation not coolant seals.
imo the bubble test sucks as its too subjective. so basically if your car has hard cold starts with tons of white smoke and are unexplicably loosing coolant, or over flows from the overflow tank then you may have a coolant seal issue.
shoot i have so called failed the bubble test yet i didnt have any coolant related issues. i just did the test for the fun of it and all it did was give me a heartache lol. until i realized i was just being stupid. as it turns out i was because about 20k miles later i needed a rebuild due to detonation not coolant seals.
imo the bubble test sucks as its too subjective. so basically if your car has hard cold starts with tons of white smoke and are unexplicably loosing coolant, or over flows from the overflow tank then you may have a coolant seal issue.
Trending Topics
12-28-10, 09:30 PM
#9
My car supposedly fails(small bubble every now and then, about the size of a pin head) and it made a 3.5 hour journey non stop when I bought it. I have also been driving it around and purposely trying to get it to dump coolant, just to really make sure. I would say if you have not had any of the previously stated issues just drive it. Im by no means an expert, I just know how frustrating it is worrying about a problem like this. The worst problems are when there is allot of gray area to interpret results. Good luck
12-28-10, 11:30 PM
#11
A leak like the over flow tank dumping? Or another external leak? Did your car over heat while driving from the leak. My old FD had a bad o-ring, and would only go about 30 miles before the engine combustion would displace so much coolant into the over flow tank causing an over heat. The over flow tank would dump all over the road due to getting to full. The only two things to cause o-ring failure would be an over heat causing a housing to warp and exposing the rubber seal, or a corrosion hole exposing the rubber seal. A leak would not cause a failed o-ring unless it lead to an over heat. One test you could also do is let the system sit under pressure over night, pull the egi fuse, crank it over, then pull the leading plugs and see if one is wet with coolant. I did this test on my old car and it showed me I had an o-ring issue.
12-29-10, 03:17 AM
#12
A leak like the over flow tank dumping? Or another external leak? Did your car over heat while driving from the leak. My old FD had a bad o-ring, and would only go about 30 miles before the engine combustion would displace so much coolant into the over flow tank causing an over heat. The over flow tank would dump all over the road due to getting to full. The only two things to cause o-ring failure would be an over heat causing a housing to warp and exposing the rubber seal, or a corrosion hole exposing the rubber seal. A leak would not cause a failed o-ring unless it lead to an over heat. One test you could also do is let the system sit under pressure over night, pull the egi fuse, crank it over, then pull the leading plugs and see if one is wet with coolant. I did this test on my old car and it showed me I had an o-ring issue.
the only problem is that the leak wasn't coming from anywhere near there.. I initially thought it was the throttle body line.. It's so near the block that it could really be an o-ring.
regardles.. i'm stupid not to check. I would absolutely love to wait another year before pulling that rat nest
12-29-10, 08:52 AM
#13
Never once overheated.. are you saying I should pressure test the system
the only problem is that the leak wasn't coming from anywhere near there.. I initially thought it was the throttle body line.. It's so near the block that it could really be an o-ring.
regardles.. i'm stupid not to check. I would absolutely love to wait another year before pulling that rat nest
the only problem is that the leak wasn't coming from anywhere near there.. I initially thought it was the throttle body line.. It's so near the block that it could really be an o-ring.
regardles.. i'm stupid not to check. I would absolutely love to wait another year before pulling that rat nest
04-04-14, 09:09 PM
#15
The champagne bubble test is not a good test because the water pump will churn up the coolant and always make some bubbles. Run the car with a lisle funnel like said above and make sure to get all the air out of the system. Change your coolant cap and thermostat if suspect. Get a coolant system pressure tester and pressurize the system. Watch for leakdown. You can sometimes hear hissing from the spark plug holes if you have a bad coolant seal. I have yet to see an outer coolant seal fail and leak externally. Its always the inner seal that goes. Leaking from the rotor housings was common on Turbo II second gens because they had O-rings sealing a coolant passage between the rotor housing and intake manifold.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
