Car Cranking but not Starting(Updated)
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Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: CA
Car Cranking but not Starting(Updated)
Hey Guys,
So this is like my third time posting about this on this website. But since thanksgiving my 93 Rx7 just wont start. It cranks but never actually catches on. Initially I was told that my engine was most likely flooded. So I completed a de-flooding procedure and still nothing. My spark plugs were basically brand new, got them when I rebuilt my engine and they have around 300 miles on them, yet they were still pretty black. So then I was told that my problem still most likely lies with my spark plugs. So I ordered a new set of 2 BUR7EQP and 2 BUR9EQP NGK spark plugs. I changed them today and still no luck, car won't turn on. So then I started thinking that it was my fuel pump. I have had a check engine light on for a while but it was only for my EGR function sensor (Error code 16) but today I got a second error code for my solenoid purge valve (Error code 40). Could the solenoid purge valve be the reason my car is having issues turning on. Also what are the chances of the problem still lying within the fuel pump even if I am not getting an Error code for it?
Here is a link to my latest thread where I explain everything in much more detail:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12446843
Any help would greatly be appreciated guys, Thanks
So this is like my third time posting about this on this website. But since thanksgiving my 93 Rx7 just wont start. It cranks but never actually catches on. Initially I was told that my engine was most likely flooded. So I completed a de-flooding procedure and still nothing. My spark plugs were basically brand new, got them when I rebuilt my engine and they have around 300 miles on them, yet they were still pretty black. So then I was told that my problem still most likely lies with my spark plugs. So I ordered a new set of 2 BUR7EQP and 2 BUR9EQP NGK spark plugs. I changed them today and still no luck, car won't turn on. So then I started thinking that it was my fuel pump. I have had a check engine light on for a while but it was only for my EGR function sensor (Error code 16) but today I got a second error code for my solenoid purge valve (Error code 40). Could the solenoid purge valve be the reason my car is having issues turning on. Also what are the chances of the problem still lying within the fuel pump even if I am not getting an Error code for it?
Here is a link to my latest thread where I explain everything in much more detail:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati.../#post12446843
Any help would greatly be appreciated guys, Thanks
Welcome to FD world.
Sounds like you are trying to fix things yourself, which is commendable. These cars are wonderful but almost always require some specific knowledge as well as at least moderate mechanical skill. You'll get both if you hang in there long enough; the learning curve is super steep.
With these cars, it's usually still the basic stuff - fuel, air, spark. In particular, the problems of flooding, compression, and fuel delivery are a lot of times the culprits.
I did not see in your de-flooding procedure that you tried the little bit of ATF in the spark plug holes. Did you try this? When rotaries flood, they aren't really like piston cars and they won't "unflood" on their own (hence the procedure that you did). The extra gas washes away the little bit of oil at the apex seal that serves to help maintain compression on start-up so the ATF is there to replace it. Put just a little bit and try to get it on each face of both rotors. Too much ATF and the neighbors may call the fire department because there is so much smoke it looks like your house is on fire.
For the fuel, a lot of times it is the fuel pump. If you jump proper terminals for the fuel pump in the little DIAG box in the front on the left side, you should hear the pump whirring away underneath the fuel pump panel on the left side of the trunk under the carpet. No sound, might need to replace. For all the fuel pump problems (wiring, fuel pump clogged, fuel pump not working, etc), I do not remember ever seeing a check engine light for it. I don't think the solenoid for the purge valve will prevent the car from turning on (I think I recall that it is mainly for venting the gas tank via the charcoal tank or something more emissions related). Same with EGR. Oh, and make sure the gas is still good if the car has sat around for a long while.
A lot of times the problem lies in those two categories. Compression may be an issue but it sounds like a relatively new motor.
Worst case and you can't seem to figure it out, you can take it to a rotary shop. Where in California are you located?
Best of luck.
Sounds like you are trying to fix things yourself, which is commendable. These cars are wonderful but almost always require some specific knowledge as well as at least moderate mechanical skill. You'll get both if you hang in there long enough; the learning curve is super steep.
With these cars, it's usually still the basic stuff - fuel, air, spark. In particular, the problems of flooding, compression, and fuel delivery are a lot of times the culprits.
I did not see in your de-flooding procedure that you tried the little bit of ATF in the spark plug holes. Did you try this? When rotaries flood, they aren't really like piston cars and they won't "unflood" on their own (hence the procedure that you did). The extra gas washes away the little bit of oil at the apex seal that serves to help maintain compression on start-up so the ATF is there to replace it. Put just a little bit and try to get it on each face of both rotors. Too much ATF and the neighbors may call the fire department because there is so much smoke it looks like your house is on fire.
For the fuel, a lot of times it is the fuel pump. If you jump proper terminals for the fuel pump in the little DIAG box in the front on the left side, you should hear the pump whirring away underneath the fuel pump panel on the left side of the trunk under the carpet. No sound, might need to replace. For all the fuel pump problems (wiring, fuel pump clogged, fuel pump not working, etc), I do not remember ever seeing a check engine light for it. I don't think the solenoid for the purge valve will prevent the car from turning on (I think I recall that it is mainly for venting the gas tank via the charcoal tank or something more emissions related). Same with EGR. Oh, and make sure the gas is still good if the car has sat around for a long while.
A lot of times the problem lies in those two categories. Compression may be an issue but it sounds like a relatively new motor.
Worst case and you can't seem to figure it out, you can take it to a rotary shop. Where in California are you located?
Best of luck.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: CA
Welcome to FD world.
Sounds like you are trying to fix things yourself, which is commendable. These cars are wonderful but almost always require some specific knowledge as well as at least moderate mechanical skill. You'll get both if you hang in there long enough; the learning curve is super steep.
With these cars, it's usually still the basic stuff - fuel, air, spark. In particular, the problems of flooding, compression, and fuel delivery are a lot of times the culprits.
I did not see in your de-flooding procedure that you tried the little bit of ATF in the spark plug holes. Did you try this? When rotaries flood, they aren't really like piston cars and they won't "unflood" on their own (hence the procedure that you did). The extra gas washes away the little bit of oil at the apex seal that serves to help maintain compression on start-up so the ATF is there to replace it. Put just a little bit and try to get it on each face of both rotors. Too much ATF and the neighbors may call the fire department because there is so much smoke it looks like your house is on fire.
For the fuel, a lot of times it is the fuel pump. If you jump proper terminals for the fuel pump in the little DIAG box in the front on the left side, you should hear the pump whirring away underneath the fuel pump panel on the left side of the trunk under the carpet. No sound, might need to replace. For all the fuel pump problems (wiring, fuel pump clogged, fuel pump not working, etc), I do not remember ever seeing a check engine light for it. I don't think the solenoid for the purge valve will prevent the car from turning on (I think I recall that it is mainly for venting the gas tank via the charcoal tank or something more emissions related). Same with EGR. Oh, and make sure the gas is still good if the car has sat around for a long while.
A lot of times the problem lies in those two categories. Compression may be an issue but it sounds like a relatively new motor.
Worst case and you can't seem to figure it out, you can take it to a rotary shop. Where in California are you located?
Best of luck.
Sounds like you are trying to fix things yourself, which is commendable. These cars are wonderful but almost always require some specific knowledge as well as at least moderate mechanical skill. You'll get both if you hang in there long enough; the learning curve is super steep.
With these cars, it's usually still the basic stuff - fuel, air, spark. In particular, the problems of flooding, compression, and fuel delivery are a lot of times the culprits.
I did not see in your de-flooding procedure that you tried the little bit of ATF in the spark plug holes. Did you try this? When rotaries flood, they aren't really like piston cars and they won't "unflood" on their own (hence the procedure that you did). The extra gas washes away the little bit of oil at the apex seal that serves to help maintain compression on start-up so the ATF is there to replace it. Put just a little bit and try to get it on each face of both rotors. Too much ATF and the neighbors may call the fire department because there is so much smoke it looks like your house is on fire.
For the fuel, a lot of times it is the fuel pump. If you jump proper terminals for the fuel pump in the little DIAG box in the front on the left side, you should hear the pump whirring away underneath the fuel pump panel on the left side of the trunk under the carpet. No sound, might need to replace. For all the fuel pump problems (wiring, fuel pump clogged, fuel pump not working, etc), I do not remember ever seeing a check engine light for it. I don't think the solenoid for the purge valve will prevent the car from turning on (I think I recall that it is mainly for venting the gas tank via the charcoal tank or something more emissions related). Same with EGR. Oh, and make sure the gas is still good if the car has sat around for a long while.
A lot of times the problem lies in those two categories. Compression may be an issue but it sounds like a relatively new motor.
Worst case and you can't seem to figure it out, you can take it to a rotary shop. Where in California are you located?
Best of luck.
What specific ATF should I use? I will also check the fuel pump when I get a chance. I live in Los Angeles. I usually take it to a place called Lucky7racing in Duarte. They have basically fixed my car in its entirety so far. Its a fantastic place and I have complete faith in them, but man are they a bit pricey. But they know what they are doing so there isn't really much room to complain lol. I would like to learn as much about the car as I can because it just isn't realistic for me to take it to them every time something wrong happens. I would like to the fix minor issues by myself if possible. Also I go to college up north in Santa Clara, and i'm not sure if there are any good rotary mechanics near that area, so my thought process is that its best not to get too reliant on them. Anyways thanks for the help!
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 217
Likes: 15
From: california
Get a fuel pressure guage even if the pump primes it might not be enough pressure. Check that your ignitor and fuel pump resistor are good(by the brake booster.
If youre in santa clara the bay area I took my rx8 to a shop Mr Mazda the guy there was cool and he recommended me someone who works on fds if you want to go that route
If youre in santa clara the bay area I took my rx8 to a shop Mr Mazda the guy there was cool and he recommended me someone who works on fds if you want to go that route
Don't assume anything. Check compression, fuel, and spark (at the right time). You need all three for an engine to run.
The best way to check for fuel is to go by the FSM procedures and check the injectors, but that's not very practical. You can buy/rent a fuel pressure checker and temporarily plumb that in the fuel feed line after the firewall with a T. But pressure there, doesn't necessarily rule out a stuck injector. Check your plugs if they are wet (flooded) or dry (no fuel). If you are doing a lot of cranking and it doesn't start, they should be wet. Also, spraying starting fluid is a good check. If it starts with starting fluid and then dies, it's probably a (lack of) fuel issue. If it doesn't start, it's not a fuel issue (unless you are getting too much fuel). If you think you're flooded, floor the accelerator pedal when you're cranking the engine over. This shuts off the injectors and gives it more air. If it starts using this method and you continually have starting problems (after it does start) you may have compression issues (esp if it's hard to start hot) or it could be leaky injector(s). Timing is generally not an issue on these cars unless you messed around with the CAS (incl inadvertently)
And why did you start a new thread on this
The best way to check for fuel is to go by the FSM procedures and check the injectors, but that's not very practical. You can buy/rent a fuel pressure checker and temporarily plumb that in the fuel feed line after the firewall with a T. But pressure there, doesn't necessarily rule out a stuck injector. Check your plugs if they are wet (flooded) or dry (no fuel). If you are doing a lot of cranking and it doesn't start, they should be wet. Also, spraying starting fluid is a good check. If it starts with starting fluid and then dies, it's probably a (lack of) fuel issue. If it doesn't start, it's not a fuel issue (unless you are getting too much fuel). If you think you're flooded, floor the accelerator pedal when you're cranking the engine over. This shuts off the injectors and gives it more air. If it starts using this method and you continually have starting problems (after it does start) you may have compression issues (esp if it's hard to start hot) or it could be leaky injector(s). Timing is generally not an issue on these cars unless you messed around with the CAS (incl inadvertently)
And why did you start a new thread on this
Last edited by TomU; Dec 17, 2020 at 11:18 AM.
Is the engine firing at all when you crank? Or just smooth turning over?
This is like any other combustion engine - if you have fuel, spark, and compression, you should get it to fire.
The codes you have shouldn't cause it not to start, should actually run fine with those codes.
Dale
This is like any other combustion engine - if you have fuel, spark, and compression, you should get it to fire.
The codes you have shouldn't cause it not to start, should actually run fine with those codes.
Dale
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: CA
Get a fuel pressure guage even if the pump primes it might not be enough pressure. Check that your ignitor and fuel pump resistor are good(by the brake booster.
If youre in santa clara the bay area I took my rx8 to a shop Mr Mazda the guy there was cool and he recommended me someone who works on fds if you want to go that route
If youre in santa clara the bay area I took my rx8 to a shop Mr Mazda the guy there was cool and he recommended me someone who works on fds if you want to go that route
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: CA
Is the engine firing at all when you crank? Or just smooth turning over?
This is like any other combustion engine - if you have fuel, spark, and compression, you should get it to fire.
The codes you have shouldn't cause it not to start, should actually run fine with those codes.
Dale
This is like any other combustion engine - if you have fuel, spark, and compression, you should get it to fire.
The codes you have shouldn't cause it not to start, should actually run fine with those codes.
Dale
I don't think I ever paid attention to what kind of ATF it was. You're not really using it for its ATF properties and it's just gonna burn off in grand fashion anyways.
Again, you don't need much.
Another alternative (and probably a better one?) is to just use engine oil to provide that seal. Instead of ATF, maybe just some oil in there instead. This is probably a better choice for you with a relatively new engine.
Oh yeah, and do what these smart people said too. Like Dale said - fuel, spark, compression.
Good luck!
Again, you don't need much.
Another alternative (and probably a better one?) is to just use engine oil to provide that seal. Instead of ATF, maybe just some oil in there instead. This is probably a better choice for you with a relatively new engine.
Oh yeah, and do what these smart people said too. Like Dale said - fuel, spark, compression.
Good luck!
Hello,
What specific ATF should I use? I will also check the fuel pump when I get a chance. I live in Los Angeles. I usually take it to a place called Lucky7racing in Duarte. They have basically fixed my car in its entirety so far. Its a fantastic place and I have complete faith in them, but man are they a bit pricey. But they know what they are doing so there isn't really much room to complain lol. I would like to learn as much about the car as I can because it just isn't realistic for me to take it to them every time something wrong happens. I would like to the fix minor issues by myself if possible. Also I go to college up north in Santa Clara, and i'm not sure if there are any good rotary mechanics near that area, so my thought process is that its best not to get too reliant on them. Anyways thanks for the help!
What specific ATF should I use? I will also check the fuel pump when I get a chance. I live in Los Angeles. I usually take it to a place called Lucky7racing in Duarte. They have basically fixed my car in its entirety so far. Its a fantastic place and I have complete faith in them, but man are they a bit pricey. But they know what they are doing so there isn't really much room to complain lol. I would like to learn as much about the car as I can because it just isn't realistic for me to take it to them every time something wrong happens. I would like to the fix minor issues by myself if possible. Also I go to college up north in Santa Clara, and i'm not sure if there are any good rotary mechanics near that area, so my thought process is that its best not to get too reliant on them. Anyways thanks for the help!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
From: CA
Don't assume anything. Check compression, fuel, and spark (at the right time). You need all three for an engine to run.
The best way to check for fuel is to go by the FSM procedures and check the injectors, but that's not very practical. You can buy/rent a fuel pressure checker and temporarily plumb that in the fuel feed line after the firewall with a T. But pressure there, doesn't necessarily rule out a stuck injector. Check your plugs if they are wet (flooded) or dry (no fuel). If you are doing a lot of cranking and it doesn't start, they should be wet. Also, spraying starting fluid is a good check. If it starts with starting fluid and then dies, it's probably a (lack of) fuel issue. If it doesn't start, it's not a fuel issue (unless you are getting too much fuel). If you think you're flooded, floor the accelerator pedal when you're cranking the engine over. This shuts off the injectors and gives it more air. If it starts using this method and you continually have starting problems (after it does start) you may have compression issues (esp if it's hard to start hot) or it could be leaky injector(s). Timing is generally not an issue on these cars unless you messed around with the CAS (incl inadvertently)
And why did you start a new thread on this
The best way to check for fuel is to go by the FSM procedures and check the injectors, but that's not very practical. You can buy/rent a fuel pressure checker and temporarily plumb that in the fuel feed line after the firewall with a T. But pressure there, doesn't necessarily rule out a stuck injector. Check your plugs if they are wet (flooded) or dry (no fuel). If you are doing a lot of cranking and it doesn't start, they should be wet. Also, spraying starting fluid is a good check. If it starts with starting fluid and then dies, it's probably a (lack of) fuel issue. If it doesn't start, it's not a fuel issue (unless you are getting too much fuel). If you think you're flooded, floor the accelerator pedal when you're cranking the engine over. This shuts off the injectors and gives it more air. If it starts using this method and you continually have starting problems (after it does start) you may have compression issues (esp if it's hard to start hot) or it could be leaky injector(s). Timing is generally not an issue on these cars unless you messed around with the CAS (incl inadvertently)
And why did you start a new thread on this
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 217
Likes: 15
From: california
Yea if you jumped the fuel pump and didnt hear the fuel pump, then you might need to start there.
i did this test on my fd before and you hear it come on. I think my case was the resistor but cant remember exactly.
Get a multimeter if yount have one already. Ive used mine for checking so many things.
Relay,wiring and the pump itself some starting points
i did this test on my fd before and you hear it come on. I think my case was the resistor but cant remember exactly.
Get a multimeter if yount have one already. Ive used mine for checking so many things.
Relay,wiring and the pump itself some starting points
Check the voltage at the pump. If it's getting electricity, it may be a bad pump
And if you want to verify FP, you can use one of these...
https://actron.com/content/professio...ure-tester-kit
plumbed in like...
https://robrobinette.com/fuelp_gauge.htm
then just reattach the fuel line back when you're done
And if you want to verify FP, you can use one of these...
https://actron.com/content/professio...ure-tester-kit
plumbed in like...
https://robrobinette.com/fuelp_gauge.htm
then just reattach the fuel line back when you're done
Last edited by TomU; Dec 18, 2020 at 10:29 AM.
Don't forget that the spark plugs is not the only component of the ignition system. There are a lot of other stuff there that can cause issues with starting. That being said, it sounds like you've already narrowed it down to the fuel system and narrowed it even further to something to do with the fuel pump. It's probably pretty unlikely that the injectors AND the fuel pump all decided to take a crap on you at the same time so if the fuel pump is not powering on, I'd head this direction first (pump, relay, wiring, etc).
Don't sell yourself short. There's a lot of smart people here that I've gotten advice from in the past and they're really good at these cars. You're taking all the right steps and figuring out the issue and it sounds like you're close to the proper diagnosis and solution. I honestly wish more new owners were like you and tried to learn and understand these cars/engines so I commend you for that.
So check out that system and let us know. If it is the fuel pump, I may be able to squeeze away for a couple hours and head up to L.A. to help you change it out if you need help. I'll look to see if I have one laying around here that works. Good luck.
Don't sell yourself short. There's a lot of smart people here that I've gotten advice from in the past and they're really good at these cars. You're taking all the right steps and figuring out the issue and it sounds like you're close to the proper diagnosis and solution. I honestly wish more new owners were like you and tried to learn and understand these cars/engines so I commend you for that.
So check out that system and let us know. If it is the fuel pump, I may be able to squeeze away for a couple hours and head up to L.A. to help you change it out if you need help. I'll look to see if I have one laying around here that works. Good luck.
Yea I probably should have continued on the previous thread, but I don't really know how these forums work. I wasn't sure if anyone was gonna see if I updated my previous thread. But anyways, My spark plugs are dry. So I wanted to check my fuel pump. I don't have the proper equipment to check for the fuel pressure. But I turned on the car and I could not hear the fuel pump. I ended up calling my roommate over for help so he can check if he hears the fuel pump while i turned on the car, but nothing. Afterwards I moved over to the diagnostics box, and with a paper clip jumped the F/P to the GND. From what I have read on other forums this should have gotten the fuel pump going but I still heard nothing. So maybe I'm thinking the fuel pump isn't working properly. Like others have pointed out in this thread: compression, spark and fuel. Im pretty sure the compression is fine with a recently rebuilt engine, and spark plugs are brand new, so that leaves fuel. So either fuel pump or fuel injectors. Could be completely wrong but who knows. It's probably best to get a real mechanic to diagnosis it in person. Like I said I'm new to this stuff. This is my first car and boy has it caused some headaches
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